After almost a century long ban, America is about to be blessed with the legalization of absinthe. If you are reading this article, you maybe asking yourself what in the world absinthe is. Let me inform you that it is a great and terrific form of alcohol that is definitely going to sweep the American people right off their feet. Absinthe is a form of alcohol that contains the ingredients wormwood and thujone. It is a green colored liquor that allows you to keep clarity in a drunken state. Some people have said it actually makes then think clearer and enhances there senses when consuming this drink. Lucid absinthe is considered to be one of the best choices when it comes to the selection of different absinthe manufactures.
The Ingredients:
Lucid absinthe is made with grande wormwood, thujone, sweet fennel, green anise, and other fine European herbs. That is what makes Lucid Absinthe the best. It uses only quality ingredients straight our of Europe, no artificial anythings. The reason that absinthe was banned in the first place was because many government officials believed that thujone caused ill effects on people. Basically they thought this ingredient mad you go a bit whacko. Recent evidence has shown however, that Lucid absinthe contains only a little bit thujone and is safe for anyone of drinking age.
The Story:
The creator of Lucid absinthe is Ted Breaux. He is an expert in the field of absinthe and he only uses traditional forms of brewing to make his absinthe. Lucid absinthe is made in France and is supplied by the Viridian Spirits Company of New York. Lucid is available right now in some high class spots in New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts. You can also purchase it online if you wan to enjoy the absinthe experience.
Absinthe is a mysterious drink that not a whole lot of people know about. If you have ever seen the movie “Eurotrip†there is a part where a green fairy flies around when the kids drink this alcohol. Absinthe is also referred to as the green fairy. Since Absinthe is already legalized and available to buy in the USA, Lucid absinthe is the best and that you should purchase this kind before any other type. You will receive the full experience when you select this kind.
At $60 a bottle you can try Lucid Absinthe from MorrellWine.com – Taste You Can Trust. They will deliver it right to your home.
Christopher,
Have you tried any of Ted Breaux’ fine Jade Absinthes? They’re not available in the US, but ordering online from Europe is a snap, and vendors such as Liqueurs de France guarantee delivery. If you’re an absinthe enthusiast, you’ll love the Jades.
Sites such as the Wormwood Society, The Absinthe Museum, and La Fee Verte are good sources of up-to-date, level-headed information on absinthe. You’ll find history, the latest research on thujone (sans hype), reviews of modern and vintage absinthes, and a list of reputable vendors.
Wormwood Society
http://www.wormwoodsociety.org
The Absinthe Museum
http://www.oxygenee.com/
Fee Verte
http://www.feeverte.net/faq.html
Cheers!
P.S. To anyone new to absinthe, the importance of doing your homework before purchasing can’t be stressed enough. You can as easily pay $120.00 for something that tastes like mouthwash as you can for a fine artisinal product. Check out absinthe ratings at the above sites.
As a jumping-off point, you might be interested in this recent Wormwood Society forum thread…..
http://wormwoodsociety.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3204
….in which members chime in on their favorite commercial absinthes of 2007.
Wow Brooks, thanks for all the information. I am going to have a look through all the links now and see what it’s all about!
I look forward to finally understanding a little bit more about absinthe!
You sounds extremely informed on this matter :)
It is, when all’s said and done, just a drink. A wonderful drink(!), but a drink nonetheless.
But the package….!
By any measure, the package is spectacular. The history, the ritual, the fountains, the spoons, the old poster art — great stuff, fascinating stuff. Not surprisingly, the drink has always attracted interesting people.
Have fun exploring!
Oh ya, I’ve taken a good read through all the information and links you left behind and find it all darn interesting, there is a great deal more to it all than every realizes!
I must still get myself a bottle and try the good stuff so that I can write a proper review on it, I look forward to that day.
Thanks again!
Absinthe is now purported to be legal in the US as long as it is THUJONE FREE! How strange as Absinthe is made from Artemisia Absinthium, the herb that gives Absinthe it’s name, and produces Thujone so what is the truth are they selling Absinthe? I don’t think so. Authentic absinthe contains thujone and Lucid absinthe doesn’t. The FDA ban thujone and therefore it had to be removed before it was allowed. Lucid and Absente are basically the same thing. Absente uses Artemisia abrotanum (Southern Wormwwod) & Lucid absinthe uses grande wormwood with the thujone REMOVED. They are one and the same in that respect. Absinthe, as drunk by Degas, Hemmingway etc., contained thujone and perhaps at levels of 260mg (according to Dr Niels Arnold of Kansas University). I have been absinthe drinker for a while now and one of the best genuine brands available are Absinthe Original and Bitter Spirit. They’re both available to buy from Absinthe Original
There are no real absinthes in the US, and will not be anytime soon!!!
Michael
Michael, I was wondering about that. I’ve heard many stories about absinthe and didn’t think that the real real absinthe would be available for purchase because of the hallucinogenic qualities it has – this is based on what various people have said.
Perhaps Brooks can elaborate on this matter for us?
There’s still a ton of nonsense flying around with regards to absinthe thanks, in no small part, to unscrupulous vendors eager to make a sale. Anyone interested in modern absinthes made in accordance with historical recipes and methods of distillation should be wary of aggressively marketed “so-called” absinthes (sometimes spelled “absinths”) from the Czech Republic. These products bear no resemblance to the absinthes popular in France and elsewhere during absinthe’s pre-ban golden age.
At no point — not now, not ever — has absinthe had hallucinogenic properties. By 1910, absinthe was the national drink of France, with the French consuming over 36 million liters per year. Common sense tells us that France’s 33,330 bars were not packed to capacity with people tripping their brains out.
Absinthe’s sensationalized “secondary effects” have been erroneously attributed to thujone — a component in wormwood. A decade of laboratory testing has dissected and debunked the thujone myth, but vendors are still pedaling the myth for profit (“Belle Epoque thujone, XXX-tra high!”).
Modern chemical analysis of the best nineteenth-century absinthes has in fact proved that they contained only trace amounts of thujone. Increasingly, it is believed that absinthe’s subtly “alert” intoxication is attributable to the stimulating effects of various herbs used in distillation. (Although if alertness is your goal, you’d do better to order a mocha latte from Starbucks than a glass of 110 to 144 proof absinthe.)
Good modern absinthe is not “absinthe lite,” as many would have you believe. In composition and methods of distillation, it is identical to absinthe made before the ban.
Serious people are doing serious research on this drink. Nowadays, one doesn’t have to look far to find information that is level-headed, up-to-date, and hype-free.
Sorry, but I have to repeat:
There are no real absinthes in the US, and will not be anytime soon.
Real absinthes of the past contained thujone — but don’t take my word for it. Just few days ago, Dr W. Arnold (University of Kansas) noted the following in the Boston Herald:
“Perhaps to raise the titillation for the current product, and to increase sales, they now claim that the “old absinthe” also had very little thujone in it! Supposedly the current drink has very little of several other terpenoids that were part of “old absinthe” because the current producers have missed the importance of (or intentionally avoided) “steam distillation”…
Source: http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?articleid=1044126&format=comments
Dr Arnold should know his stuff, since it was he who first tested pre-ban absinthes for thujone and other terpenoids. And guess what he found? Pre-ban absinthe sometimes contained up to 260mg/kg of thujone!
At that time, the self-styled “absinthe chemist” Mr. Ted Breaux was still backpacking in Thailand, the country where he later set up his first “absinthe” distillery (no, his PR people are not pushing this message). The “traditional” Made in Thailand :-) absinthe didn’t sell much, obviously. Since then, an intense PR campaign has been underway, promoting the deceptive no-thujone message.
The Reason Magazine (reason.com) also recently noted: “Even as (they) emphasize Lucid’s negligible thujone content, the drink’s manufacturer tries to capitalize on absinthe’s reputation as a forbidden potion with the slogan, “Prohibition is finally over!”…
To my knowledge, there are only two absinthes in existence that contain anywhere near pre-ban levels of thujone (100 mg): Absinth King of Spirits Gold and Century Absinthe.
Are you, by any chance, affiliated with Absinthe King of Spirits Gold?
I’m can’t — won’t — get into another harangue about thujone. We’re all free to research the topic and come to our own conclusions.
Let’s talk about the drink itself. Those of you interested in purchasing absinthe will, presumably, want to drink it.
I hope you have the opportunity, as I, and many others have, to compare any one of the terrific modern European absinthes now available (the Jades, Eichelberger, Duplais, Clandestine, Marteau, Belle Amie, La Ptite) to Absinthe King of Spirits Gold…and its ilk.
While you’re at it, you might find it illuminating to compare any and all of the above products to a sample or two of PRE-BAN absinthe, which you can purchase from Oxy, at The Absinthe Museum:
http://www.oxygenee.com/absinthe-buy/vintage1.html
This experiment will cost you a bundle, but it certainly is enlightening.
Which absinthes do you think come closest to replicating the great absinthes of the nineteenth century? Which absinthes are a delight to drink, and which absinthes taste like paint thinner? (I said I wouldn’t mention thujone again, but if, after sampling these absinthes, you still think thujone content amounts to a hill of beans, I’ll eat my shoe.)
Laters, ‘gators!
Michael,
You don’t seem to know what you’re talking about. You are throwing Dr. Arnold’s name around like you know what his studies actually involved.
However, two crucial points that you either neglected to mention, or didn’t actually know:
1) Dr. Arnold never actually tested ANY absinthe. His theories were based on mathematical computations and assumptions regarding distillation procedures.
2) Dr. Arnold’s studies have been refuted by multiple studies since his original published work. He continues to stick to his hypothesis, but many believe that is more because of the fact that a large portion of his career has been made by discussing Picasso and certain mental ailments which led him to crave turpenoids. All currently available studies that involved ACTUAL TESTING OF VINTAGE ABSINTHE have disproved his theories.
As to your mention of Absinthe KOSG, Absinth Original, and Century, none of them are the same absinthe that the French public was drinking at the turn of the twentieth century.
If someone is looking for authentic absinthe, similar to that which was being consumed in France in the early 1900′s, they should look at buying something like the Jades, Duplais, Roquette, Marteau, Mystique, Eichelberger, etc.
There’s nothing wrong with someone enjoying Century, KOSG, Absinth Original, or any of the other Bohemian style absinths. That is, as long as they know that they aren’t drinking what was being inbibed upon back then. They are completely different in style, flavor, color and even production. They aren’t anything like the authentic French and Swiss absinthes.
Notice I didn’t mention anything about absinthe that’s available here in the US. That’s because I don’t need to. St. George is pretty decent. Lucid is so so. Kubler is pretty good as well. If you’re interested in thujone (which there really isn’t any reason to be) then don’t buy those brands, as they have less than 10 ppm. But honestly, absinthe won’t make you hallucinate. It won’t get you high. The ‘effect’ is similar to the stimulant effect of drinking a red bull and vodka. But overconsumption won’t make the effect any stronger.
So, to conclude, don’t buy absinthe if you’re looking for some crazy trip. DO buy absinthe if you like mildly bitter, anise flavored beverages that have a wonderful history, and a fascinating preparation ritual.
Chris M. do yourself a favor and listen to what Brooks and Shabba have said. They can be confident in what they say because they have done the background reading and know and understand absinthe. People are out there saying all kinds of crazy things because the illicit mystique surrounding absinthe is what makes them money.
I’m not going to get into a point by point debate here of all the logic errors and attention diversionary tactics used, but what Shabba said is true. There is an effect, it’s slight, and really ought to be considered like “frosting on the cake” and not the main point of the drink.
Absinthe is a complex, sophisticated spirit with a long, colorful history that can be very satisfying to consume and study. It’s just hard to get people to believe that, and only that.
Hiya Christopher,
As you have noticed, there’s quite a debate over the alleged “effects” of absinthe, its method of manufacture, legality, studies, and so on.
Something to consider: Thujone isn’t illegal, banned, or prohibited in the US…it never has been. The official verbage from the FDA regulations are that Artemesia Absinthium (grand wormwood…that which makes absinthe “absinthe”) is approved as a food additive so long that it’s “thujone free” in accordance with their prescribed testing methods. The previous method (a true/false indication) had a 10 ppm margin of error. They’ve improved the testing method to one that’s more precise, but they’ve allowed a threshold of 10 ppm to be effectively “thujone free.” The irony is that this applies to a. absinthium and a couple other herbs specifically (tansy, among others). However, it neglects to address such herbs as tarragon and sage, both of which contain more thujone than wormwood. You’ll note that it doesn’t even address Thuja, the tree from which thujone was originally identified and gets its name.
Here’s the full document from the FDA:
http://tinyurl.com/3bs379
In other words, beaurocracy, not health or safety, was the official drive for absinth’s effective ban in the US.
The problem is that due to the vilification of absinthe and thujone in the late 19th century led to a “taboo mystique” in the drink. It was made in Spain (where it was never banned) up into the 50′s or 60′s but the popularity wasn’t really there to support it. Fast forward to the 90′s where such movies as Dracula, From Hell, and Eurotrip got the attention of the public as well as a few manufacturers who, knowing it was also never banned in the Czech Republic, decided to capitalize on the taboo and the reputed psychotropic “effects.” Kind of like the appeal of Amsterdam to Americans with regards to legal drugs. Thus, the advent of King of Spirits Gold, Century, and all that claim maximum effects as well as poo-pooing the ones that pass US FDA specifications as fakes or having the thujone removed. The proven truth is that it’s naturally removed during the distillation process *and* that it’s not a hallucinogen in the first place.
Really…look at the marketing between the different styles. Compare the ones that really pimp the thujone content and “effects” to the ones that sell with a simple claim of being a quality, good tasting spirit. Hype sells, so when you read an ad for an absinthe that claims to be super trippy or an instant panty-remover, do give it the scrutiny you would towards a “lose weight instantly” pill or “make millions without working” plan.
Caveat Emptor
(buyer beware)
Trid
Poor Chris, who innocently blogged about Lucid, must feel like an army of tanks just rolled over his front lawn.
Sorry, man!
Indeed. Sorry about that. : )
Christopher
Your blog is discussed / sneered at here:
http://wormwoodsociety.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3232
The reason that absinthe is banned in the USA (it still is) …thujone. End of story. They attack in groups as you can see.
Hi peeps,
Ok, I had a pretty darn late last night, being New Year and all, so I will need some time to read through all the comments and take a look at the links provided.
Sounds like such a great discussion that is going on here!
“Poor Chris, who innocently blogged about Lucid, must feel like an army of tanks just rolled over his front lawn.” – Not at all, I think it’s awesome that I started a nice discussion, where we can all get to the bottom of this with good researched facts!
Once I’ve had a chance to read all the information at hand, I will be back to comment more accurately :)
Happy New Year folks!
Broom, don’t be bratty. No one is sneering at Chris. Chris, who seems genuinely interested in this topic, is the reason so much time, thought, and care went into the responses posted here.
The Wormwood Society’s mission — like that of the other two major absinthe sites linked above — is to promote accurate information about absinthe. Frat-boy sensationalism is not what any of us are about.
There is simply no evidence that vintage absinthe contained more than trace levels of thujone. Were new research to prove otherwise, rest assured that it would be front-page, banner headlines on all the absinthe sites.
The question is…..would it matter?
Absinth King of Spirits Gold claims that its 750ml bottles of absinth contain 100mg thujone. That works out to 6-7mg of thujone per 1.5 fluid ounce serving — roughly the amount of thujone contained in a large pinch (600 mg) of ground sage.
That’s SAGE — the featured player in turkey stuffing. Balz-trippin’, hallucinogenic turkey stuffing.
“More stuffing, anyone?”
“Yes PLEASE, Mom!”
Chris, a very Happy New Year to you, sir. And thanks for being a gracious host.
For some reason I cannot reply to the thread on wormwoodsociety.org – I did sign up, but the minute I try and reply, it’s giving me a permissions error for some reason and there’s not much explanation.
I don’t see why I would be ‘sneered’ at, I have done nothing incorrect nor have I said anything inappropriate. I simply did a little reading on the matter and expressed my opinion. I’ve held my comments back carefully as I’m not very informed on the topic of absinthe and have rather read the comments here carefully and am trying to build my own opinion on the matter.
There seems to be so much information on this topic, it’s hard for me to gather it all so quickly..
“I cannot reply to the thread on wormwoodsociety.org….”
Not sure why. Sit tight….we’ll get back to you on that.
Ok sure, I will try again just now :)
Chris, I’ve just learned that the Hiram, the head of the WS, has to approve all new memberships. This being New Year’s day, he’s probably sleeping in. So kick back for now, and we’ll look forward to your post. :)
Ah alright, that’s fair enough. I will continue researching and sit tight for the time being. Thanks for looking into that for me mate!
Chris, you were approved this morning, but one of your spam filters was gumming up the works.
Try signing on again.
Talked to Hiram and it seems like you should be golden now.
And make no mistake Chris, you are not being sneered at one bit. We applaud your inquisitive nature and look forward to you becoming a member at the WS.
If you ever have any questions, feel free to PM me over there. I’d be more than happy to help.
Cheers!
Welcome to the Wormwood Society. All of us are dedicated to absinthe education and enjoying that wonderful historic beverage. The only people that have any reason to steer clear of WS are shills determined to spread balz-trippin’ misinformation to take advantage of the uninformed. We welcome anyone interested learning more about absinthe and interested in having a little fun. I’ll wager, this is one of the friendliest forums on the internet.
@Brooks – I’ve just arrived at my computer, I will check the forums out right now.
@Shabba – Ah, that’s good to hear. I just wanted to acquire some good solid knowledge, which I seem to be doing at a rapid rate! Will head over to the forums in a few mins.
@T73 – Thanks a lot, I look forward to discussing this further. There’s just so much information available, it’s hard taking it all in :)
Hi Chris,
If you peruse the other blogs and news items on the web lately, you’ll find that many of them get pretty much the same response as Michael S and Broom have given here, but always with different names.
Dr. Arnold’s estimate has been soundly disproved in peer-reviewed science papers where Arnold himself was on the review panel. Still, that’s the only thing the thujone pushers have to go on, so they hang onto it as if their very livelihoods depended on it (it does), instead of simply learning how to make decent absinthe that doesn’t need phony drug hype to sell it.
Welcome to WS, btw.
Cheers!
Thanks for the welcome Hiram, I have been reading so much information on this topic that I feel it’s bursting out of my ears!
I would love to write a follow up article or even have someone completely in the know write an article which I could public, just so that all my readers have 100% legitimate information on this very interesting topic!
Thanks for popping in and sharing your information Hiram, I appreciate it!
Hiram
Your “organization” has been exposed numerous times as the marketing arm of Ted Breaux & Co. Your comment has no merit whatsoever, and should be treated as spam.
There is an ongoing debate regarding this among the absinthe community, with many people unhappy about Lucid’s marketing tactics. Just Google “lucid absinthe” for more — skip the official site and the (paid for) press coverage, and you will find plenty of blogs and forums where this is being discussed.
For several years, Breaux has been working with a French distillery, faithfully reproducing a number of classic absinthes based on chemical scans of the contents of vintage bottles. The scans accord with recent research and contradict the traditional theory that thujone is absinthe’s magic ingredient.
“When I tested bottles of vintage absinthe,” he says, “I was surprised to find they contained very little thujone.”
…
“If a maker or seller has to depend upon promoting myths and misinformation about thujone to sell a product, that is a fairly reliable indicator that said product is sorely lacking in quality and authenticity,” he says.
This topic just gets more and more exciting as the days go by! The more information which poors in, the more I start to realise that I really knew very little about this topic.
I love it!
“Your “organization” has been exposed numerous times as the marketing arm of Ted Breaux & Co.”
Michael S, that is as absolutely hilarious as it is wrong. Instead of me questioning your honesty, why don’t we ask our host if the Wormwood Society is the marketing arm of anything?
Chris M: As a very new member of the Wormwood Society, are you aware of any ulterior motive (particularly marketing absinthe products) beyond absinthe education and socializing on the ‘net with other like-minded absinthe lovers?
Michael S, why are you making this stuff up? What’s YOUR ulterior motive? Um, maybe… Czechsinthe?
“Your “organization” has been exposed numerous times as the marketing arm of Ted Breaux & Co.”
Mike, your comment has absolutely no merit whatsoever. Someone’s ‘accusations’ that the WS is a marketing arm of Ted Breaux doesn’t mean it’s actually true.
I can accuse you of being an alien, but my accusation doesn’t make it any more true.
So, even though the Wormwood Society is made up of more than a thousand members, including producers from multiple distilleries, and quite a few people who openly dislike Ted, it’s still a marketing arm?
So why would people like Hiram, Pierreverte, Oxy, Deepforest, etc etc, who all produce their own absinthes and are in direct competition with Ted also be members of the Society?
How come every bit of scientific information regarding thujone that has come out since the early 90′s refutes the earlier claims regarding thujone levels in absinthe?
Also, you may want to read through the forum. There’s just as many people in the WS who dislike Lucid as like it.
If I may ask, what about the WS don’t you like? Are you a thujone hyper, or are you just a defender of Bohemian style absinth?
Here’s a good example of the arguments of people like you:
From the Wikepedia discussion.
ACCUSATION:
Many multiple links from this Wikipedia page go to a small handful of absinthe retailers:
1. Liquers de France
2. FeeVerte
3. Thujone.info (same as 2.)
They sell La Clandestine and Jade brands.
4. The Wormwood Society – of which the main writer of this page is a senior member – also strongly recommends La Clandestine and Jade,
Under the heading “buy absinthe” The Wormwood Society advertises:
DrinkupNY (selling Lucid – the thujone free absinthe from the makers of Jade)
Liquers de France (Jade)
La Clandestine
Absinthe.de (which sells both Jade and La Clandestine and another made by the owner of http://www.wormwoodsociety.org called Marteau Verte)
So, they accuse these retailers as being Jade and Clandestine ‘plants’. What they fail to mention is that Absinthe.de sells 75 different types of absinthe from 7 different countries and LdF sells traditional French and Swiss absinthes from 9 different distilleries, not just Jade.
But I guess that still makes them part of the ‘Jade conspiracy’?
Along with that, the article that Hiram wrote regarding Czech absinth seems to be much maligned amongst those in your camp Chris, however, when faced with specific points made in the article, no one came forth to dispute them. Why? Because all that you want to do is throw out wild accusations and conspiracy theories, regardless of fact because that’s all the ammo you have.
Woops, in the bottom part of my post, I meant to say Mike. Sorry about that Chris. I don’t want to pull you in any more than you already have been! : )
Wow, things are really getting heated in this thread, what a total pleasure. I can’t wait to see where this leads as I have to admit that this is the most exciting thread I think iMod has experienced!
T73 – “ulterior motive” – not sure exactly what you are asking me? I’ve been to the forums, had a decent read, but there’s a great deal to cover. I’m doing it all day by day.
Shabba.. no problem bud, I’m sure the readers will realize.
Well Chris, welcome to the drama of absinthe :)
On the one side, you have those who claim there are no “real” absinthes in the US because they limit the amount of thujone it can contain. We’ll call them “Group A”
On the other side are those who assert that based on recent revelations (by recent I mean in the last 2 or 3 years) that what was previously believed and documented were not at all true. We’ll call these people “Group B”
Group A, as far as I can tell, consists of various sub-groups. Those who know *of* absinthe, but aren’t familiar with it first hand. They’ve heard all the hype and have somewhat romanticized it in their heads. However, they’re rather disappointed to hear that it’s not all what the hype portrays…not to mention that it tastes nothing like they may have imagined, and they simply don’t like it…or maybe they do. But either way, no green faerie trips and hallucinations, despite what all the “historical data” (movies like Moulin Rouge, From Hell, Eurotrip, etc.) has told them. The second half of Group A are those who’ve been making/selling/marketing (mostly marketing) absinth(e)s that are touted as having high thujone/maximum “effect” and so on. They also like to quote studies that contain information that supports the hype and lambaste contradictory studies and opinions.
Group B, as I’ve broken it down, are those who simply enjoy the drink, regardless of what the “active ingredient” is or how much is in it. More important are historic recipes, well crafted variants, and absinthe either matching the quality of historic (i.e. pre-ban) absinthes made by well established reputable producers, or at least tasting GOOD. To these people, the revelation that the accusations leading to the ban were, in fact, bunk, does not detract from the enjoyment. The obvious ones such as absinthe driving people mad, or into convulsions, or addiction well beyond that of alcoholism are more widely accepted. The ones where thujone is the magical hallucinogen that’s all important to the drink, or how much was in the pre-ban drinks, or even what *actually* makes absinthe ‘absinthe’ have been debunked, but as esoteric as they may be, they don’t make much difference to those who actually enjoy the drink. No matter what is in it, or how much, if it tastes good, it just does…proof is easy. Put it in your mouth and the rest is done.
Now, those in A who are exposed to the myth debunking who actually enjoy the drink for just that, a drink, slide over into B with varying degrees of disappointment. The previously illicit nature does add a little spark of enjoyment above and beyond appreciating the taste…I’ll totally concede that (I was there once). However, those in A who stand to make a buck (or Euro) or two off of the hype as opposed to actual quality will cling to the hype and studies that support their sales/commissions. You’ll notice that in general, the most heated arguments come from those looking to perpetuate the “effects” and thujone amount arguments. They tend to come in the form of accusation and cries of “conspiracy.” My observations of the whole debate has been that there has definitely been nastiness slung about by both groups. However, the side of B seems to cite far more substantial and varied sources that reveal that the previously held information was indeed false, or at least exaggerated. That, if it were some sort of sales agenda, would be quite counterproductive, don’t you think?
I personally don’t like to get into the general statements such as “Czech absinth is X” or “Swiss absinthe is Y” where one would indicate some sort of all inclusive quality vs. crap statement. However, I’ll happily weigh in where I have experience of one brand vs. another where it’s good or bad. I also believe in finding out first hand wherever practical. The few absinthes that I’ve tried that I enjoy were French and German…all provided by friends who ordered from European exporters. I’ve bought Lucid myself (although I haven’t opened it yet…not in a hurry) and have heard mixed reviews. I have yet to try an Czech absinth, but at the same time, I want to. I want to make my mind up for myself. Like wine, I think the ultimate test is taste and the person tasting…if you like it, drink it. If you want to light it on fire? Well…ask a fan of craft brews and good beer what they think of chugging that trappist ale with a beer bong. It may not be “wrong” per se, but is it really a good idea to waste a quality (not to mention expensive) drink like that?
In the end, it’s your money, your booze, and do what you want. That applies in what you want to buy, how you want to drink it, and what your personal definition of “good” is. The drama of what is “real” absinthe is or is not will rage on between both groups regardless :)
Betcha had no idea your blog would open up this kind of can of worms, no?
Cheers,
Trid
“On the one side, you have those who claim there are no “real” absinthes in the US because they limit the amount of thujone it can contain. We’ll call them “Group A” “
Can’t we call them “Group W”? (joke for those who remember the ’60s.
“They also like to quote studies that contain information that supports the hype”
Actually, they only usually cite one thing, which is the solitary source for the 260mg/l figure: an article(1999) in the British Medical Journal—an article, not a study, not a paper, no experiments done—written by Strang, Arnold and Peters, mentioned a figure proposed in a book written by Arnold(1992) containing theoretical calculations arrived at by calculator, not analysis. They were incorrect and disproved by practical assays.
“Your “organization” has been exposed numerous times as the marketing arm of Ted Breaux & Co.”Really? Where? That’s a pretty serious accusation. I suggest you come up with some sort of proof. I think you meant to say “I’ve accused your organization numerous times without the slightest justification or evidence, just so I can muddy the water and create doubt…”. The Wormwood Society has absolutely no affiliation with Ted Breaux, and never has.
“For several years, Breaux has been working with a French distillery, faithfully reproducing a number of classic absinthes based on chemical scans of the contents of vintage bottles. The scans accord with recent research and contradict the traditional theory that thujone is absinthe’s magic ingredient.”
See? You admit it. Recent science demonstrates that old theories were erroneous.
“skip the official site and the (paid for) press coverage, and you will find plenty of blogs and forums where this is being discussed.”
Yeah, but their all being vandalized by you, just like this one.
Trid,I bow down to you. That was so well written that I really don’t have anything more to offer. : )
WOW Trid, that’s an inspirational post. I’m lost for words, I think it’s best that I reply to this post in the morning when my brain is ticking as quickly as yours!
“T73 – “ulterior motive” – not sure exactly what you are asking me?”
I’m sorry that wasn’t more clear, Chris. Michael S. accused WS of being “…the marketing arm of Ted Breaux & Co.” I was asking if you have seen any evidence of that. As a very new member of WS and the Admin of this blog, I thought you might offer an objective opinion. Nothing more.
Ah, I follow now.
You know T73, to be quite honest, I’m still trying to read through all the information. I’ve been extremely busy the last week or so and let’s face it, this is a rather involved and complex topic.
I honestly never imagined that there would be such a strong following behind absinthe, and not just that, everything else which goes behind it. I’m completely blown away.
I’ve set some time aside for tomorrow evening, where I will have some free time to deal with things I have wanted to work on and this topic is one of them. Hopefully by tomorrow evening I will have a much better outlook on all of this and then I would be able to comment accurately..
Study hard, there will be a test next week. :)
Haha, imagine!!!
“You know T73, to be quite honest,…”
We wouldn’t ask for anything else. ;)
“I’m lost for words, I think it’s best that I reply to this post in the morning when my brain is ticking as quickly as yours!”
I blame this morning’s coffee for that burst :) I really should try to include *food* in my breakfast, too.
Sounds like me! A double capachino, no breakfast :P
Things got really quiet in here all of a sudden :)
Yup…there reaches a point of dead-horse beating that even the most die-hard drama queen moves along. You’ve seen a fairly typical exchange here…one that goes between hype and history. It rears its ugly head in about the same fashion as did here every time somebody blogs about recent changes in absinthe law and availability. The same views are presented and in the end, it’s really up to everybody on their own to figure out what’s what when the dust clears. Looks like the dust in here is just about cleared.
The good news is that you’ve gotten a ton of really good information thrown at you…that leaves plenty of opportunity to look at it all and figure it out at your own leisure.
Cheers!
Fantastic Tril, was just curious to see who was still around and what had to be said.
I hope you’re keeping well and having a good week! :)
Whatever you are looking for in terms of Absinthe, they have it! Click my name to see for yourself.
Hehe, thanks for the link :)
Hello all. I too am new to the wonderful world of absinthe. I have spent a few hours today researching and trying to come up with the answers I wanted. But that’s just it, I was looking for the answers I wanted and that wasn’t the truth. Lemme break it down. After joining WS and Fee and reading up on most of the links provided, I started to come to some conclusions: WARNING : MY OPINION IS NEXT:
The original ban of absinthe, much like that of marijuana, seems economically and politically motivated. The great wine makers of France were seeing their profits take a nose dive after a crop failure lead to price raises and thus an increase in hard liquor consumption occured with absinthe in the lead. So, the wine industry backed a scientific hack who had been claiming for years prior that absinthism (NOT alcoholism) would destroy France. They backed the hack to restore wine to what they thought was it’s rightful place and restore their pockets and bank accounts to what they thought should be their proper size. So, greed motivated, they shut down absinthe. Phillip Morris Co did the same to Marijuana here in the USA last century. Once I had drawn this parallel I realized why absinthe was banned with so little effort. It’s all in the money.
Next up I was trying to see the myth of a psychoactive liquor. In my youth I experimented with mind altering substances and always wanted to try absinthe from the moment I read it had mild psychoactive properties. I wanted to believe it was real. I searched high and low for information on it. And most of it is conflicting. I gave up and moved on with my life…until recentley. In 2003 I had heard of the return of absinthe and the legal battle being waged to legalize it in the USA. I was right back to the myth. Here’s my problem. I have NEVER drank pre-ban Absinthe. I have no idea if it lives up to the hype and trust no one else to tell me. The first time I tripped on acid I didn’t. That is, it didn’t live up to what I thought it should have been. But the second time it did. It was a true trip. A true life altering experience. So, no, I cannot take someone else’s view as it may not be complete or for that matter, it will not be MY experience. In thinking of all this it dawned on me that the Group A and B piece I just read above was missing a few more groups and a little bit more. But that would be too confusing, at least for me, so I figured I would simplify it and here it is. Anyone selling the stuff is going to push it. No one makes absinthe and says “Hey, this is true crap!” They believe in themselves and their product 100% and get other like minded people to do the pushing. To spread the propaganda. When was the last time you put your heart and soul into something and thought, hey, I suck? Most people don’t. Especially people who consider themselves professionals in a given field. With this in mind I concluded that there are people who know and people who don’t. Some who know care and some don’t. Some who don’t know can be fooled, and some see through the hype. And there it is.
Was pre-ban absinthe as powerful as today’s absinthe? I don’t know. What I do know is that you won’t have a psychedellic experience from today’s absinthe. Does it matter how much thujone is in today’s versus yesterday’s? No. If pre-ban absinthe truly gives you a mild psychedellic experience as advertised, it doesn’t matter now, as today’s never will. Most governments will NOT allow anyone anytime soon to sell psychedellic liquor. And, in the end, the experience is what most people are attracted to first. At least I was.
One interesting side note. I read somewhere that 10mg/l thujone is the legal limit in the US, as the FDA states. But get this, the 10mg/l is supposed to be “Thujone Free”, the way a certain amount of fat in food can allow a manufacturer to label it as fat free. The fat is still there, but the label misleads, and the government backs it. It’s a technicality. Now I have a question for all the Absinthe pros here as I am truly an amatuer: If the government says Thujone free is 10mg/l, is it? Is it thujone free or is that just a selling point? Anyone scared of thujone would like to believe it is, just as people who are interested in an “experience” would like to believe it isn’t. I have a feeling it’s just a matter f perspective, but i’d love to hear some answers. Thank you all for your time.
Hats off to you for thinking critically and sanely.
Again — and this can’t be stressed enough — thujone content is irrelevant. There’s no “there” there. A healthy pinch of dried kitchen sage contains the same amount of thujone as entire bottle of so-called “high-thujone” absinthe.
Scientific analysis of pre-ban absinthes has shown that pre-bans were, in fact, far lower in thujone content than “high-thujone” absinthes hyped outside the US today. At no point in absinthe’s history did thujone content have anything to do with the drink’s popularity. The sensationalizing of thujone is pure marketing.
Your analogy of “low fat” = “fat-free” is perfect. That “trippy” pinch of ground sage contains 300 mg of thujone. The US limit of 10mg is so negligible as to be considered thujone-free.
Why does the US regulate thujone content in absinthe but not in ground sage? The ridiculous bottom line is because absinthe has a “reputation,” and the kitchen herb does not. Neither the trace amounts of thujone in absinthe nor the trace amounts of thujone in turkey stuffing will make you hallucinate.
And to reiterate points made earlier in the thread….
At the peak of absinthe’s Belle Epoque popularity, France’s 33,330 bars were packed to capacity at happy hour with men and women enjoying a few absinthes before dinner. These people were not tripping their brains out.
Absinthe (like some rums) is high proof. Like any 90-144 proof beverage, it will kick your ass if you overindulge. Drink too much absinthe — or too many martinis — and there’s an excellent chance the room will spin.
Good pre-ban absinthe is merely delicious. Treat yourself to a sample, and see!
Wow. Talk about a zombie thread! Over a year since the last post until last night!
I think the argument is pretty much over at this point.
However, I do want to clarify one point from Midnight’s post:
“If pre-ban absinthe truly gives you a mild psychedellic experience as advertised, it doesn’t matter now, as today’s never will.”
Absinthe during the Belle Epoque was never advertised as psychedellic. Absinthe didn’t start being advertised as drug-like until the 1990′s, when the Bohemian style brands started coming out. Thujone levels weren’t advertised until then either. Funny enough, independent GS analysis of many of those brands show that the thujone levels in many of those brands are much lower than they claim them to be.
Midknightsecs, I agree with you more than disagree. I think the answers are pretty clear if you strip away all assumptions. You’ll be surprised to find out just how many ideas about absinthe have been created in the last ten years by brand promoters.
“In my youth I experimented with mind altering substances and always wanted to try absinthe from the moment I read it had mild psychoactive properties.
Where did you read this? Not only is there no evidence or indication that pre-ban absinthe was psychedelic, there’s no evidence or indication that anyone back then thought it was. It was accused of being poisonous, addictive, debilitating and deadly, but never a recreational drug, as we use the term today. This is a modern, post-1960s idea.
… Most governments will NOT allow anyone anytime soon to sell psychedelic liquor.
You are correct. Now, consider the government of 19th century France: do you honestly believe that millions of people crowding the boulevards every day for at least several decades could be having a psychedelic experience—however mild—and yet not excite the authorities and leave no record or mention of it? Thirty-six million liters per year in more than 33,000 cafés!
“… Here’s my problem. I have NEVER drank pre-ban Absinthe. I have no idea if it lives up to the hype and trust no one else to tell me. …”
I’ve had a number of pre-ban absinthes and so have dozens of others. It’s not likely that we’d all lie about something like that. Absinthe doesn’t “live up to” the “tripping-balls-from-thujone” hype created by unethical marketers. It does however live up to the actual, historically recorded reputation established by the people who drank and loved it: it is a marvelous, flavorful, stimulating, and refreshing drink, when properly prepared.
“… Anyone selling the stuff is going to push it. No one makes absinthe and says “Hey, this is true crap!” They believe in themselves and their product 100% and get other like minded people to do the pushing. To spread the propaganda.”
While I understand—and to a degree, share—your cynicism, there are different types of business people involved in absinthe production now, just as there was back then. Some were/are sincere producers who care most about making a quality product which people will enjoy, and who believe in honest, fair business ethics. These are true craftsmen and almost invariably stand proudly behind their product with their name and face. I humbly place myself in this category.
There are/were also, as there will be with any lucrative fad, mercenary and often faceless, nameless “brand producers” who hide behind a cascade of s and care little about quality, relying instead on appeal to the baser instincts and the gullibility of youth.
“… Was pre-ban absinthe as powerful as today’s absinthe? I don’t know. What I do know is that you won’t have a psychedellic experience from today’s absinthe. Does it matter how much thujone is in today’s versus yesterday’s? No. If pre-ban absinthe truly gives you a mild psychedellic experience as advertised…”
The vital question here is: advertised by whom? It was never advertised as such in the pre-ban era, by anyone. Today there are growing numbers of honest craftsmen who genuinely care about reproducing pre-ban absinthe in the most minute detail, and none of them resort to thujone or related drug hype in marketing.
“… I read somewhere that 10mg/l thujone is the legal limit in the US, as the FDA states. But get this, the 10mg/l is supposed to be “Thujone Free”… Now I have a question for all the Absinthe pros here as I am truly an amatuer: If the government says Thujone free is 10mg/l, is it? Is it thujone free or is that just a selling point?
No one I’m aware of uses “thujone-free” as a selling point. The reason “thujone-free” means 10 ppm to the fed is because that’s the fudge-factor of the legally-imposed method of analysis. Studies have demonstrated that subjects were unable to tell the difference between 100 mg/l, 10 mg/l and 0 mg/l of thujone in alcohol.
I hope this helps add some further perspective.
Cheers,
Gwydion Stone
Proprietor/Distiller
Marteau Absinthe de la Belle Époque
http://www.absinthemarteau.com
I’d like to thank you all for your time and the answers to my questions.
As for the question asked of me, where did I read about absinthe trips? High Times, of course. They did a series on the poets of Paris and their use of Hashish. It mentioned the effects that absinthe supposedley had on them during this time period, and the descriptions all sounded like a mild trip, like old moldy mushrooms might give you. Mild and short.
Gwydion: As for the thujone “Fudge Factor”, that was what I was trying to relay, but failed. If 10 ppm is thujone free, then, say, Lucid, claiming to have 10 ppm is just a marketing scheme, because, as per the US government, 10 ppm IS thujone free.
As thujone is NOT a psychedllic substance, thujone content shouldn’t matter. Sounds like a lot of marketing hype and propaganda. Sad really. Thank you again for your time.
Not to be pushy, but I think it might be better to continue this discussion in the proper arena, and let this thread die, since it has been for over a year. :)
I suggest we open a thread at the WS.
My closing thoughts to Midknightsecs (promise!)…..
Thujone content is, as we’ve said, irrelevant. In a sane universe, there would be no need to list irrelevant ingredients on a bottle of absinthe. But thujone myths die hard, and I can think of two reasons why a manufacturer might list thujone content on the bottle:
Reason #1. To counter the thujone hype. Lucid was first legal absinthe in the US. At the time of its release, there were (and still are) people under the impression that absinthe either kills you or drives you insane. By listing its government-regulated thujone content, Lucid reassured these people that absinthe was safe to drink — even in the tight-assed USA.
Reason #2. To capitalize on the thujone hype. The target consumers of “high-thujone” absinth (sic) are in it for the balz-trippin’, “psychedelic” thrills. These absinths — some boasting thujone content of 100 mg per bottle (see “pinch of kitchen sage,” above) — are not available in the US, despite the fact that 100 mg is no more “psychoactive” than 10 mg.
Thujone isn’t psychoactive, period. It has neuroconvulsant properties if ingested in insane quantities, but in order to ingest enough thujone to give a lab rat the shakes, you’d have to chug 90-some glasses of absinthe in rapid succession. (Volunteers? Anyone?)
So yes, to get back to your point, thujone content is a non-issue. Myths die hard, but the public is slowly waking up. In due time, all the nonsense will be laid to rest.
Wow, incredible to see this thread start up again, thank you everyone for commenting!
Hiya, Chris. Long time no see! Hope you had a good year!
:)
Hey Brooks, I’m very well thanks and the year is going just great thank you.
How are you and how is your year going?
:)
Times are lean and kinda scary, but this too shall pass.
Glad all’s well with you.
Good day friends, once again I’d like to thank you all for your wonderful comments on my website – it means so much to me to know that I’ve provided an interesting forum for a good chat.
The South African Blog Awards have come around again and I’ve been nominated this year – I need your support – Please would you vote for me by visiting this link and following the instructions – http://www.imod.co.za/vote/helpvote.html
Once again, thank you all for your support!
is this legal over here in South Africa? if so where can you buy it in Joburg?