One week after MWEB announces uncapped Internet and launches South Africa into the 21st century (only a decade or so late) … the big day has finally arrived and First National Bank has announced its relationship with Paypal.com. Are we finally ready to join the rest of the world?
As an FNB client myself I was quickly able to link my Paypal.com account to my FNB cheque account (log into FNB online banking, click on accounts, look for the PayPal services link on the left and follow 5 easy steps). The process went a very smoothly, except for the big warning that all my activities will be reported to the SA Reserve Bank. Even though I have nothing to hide, it is a little intimidating.
So, taking a look at the offering, I do have a few points:
- Your paypal.com account will be based in US Dollars. Not too bad for people using it for international payments, but don’t think about using it as your regular payment processor for South African citizens – in fact, it could probably be illegal.
- You have 30 days to transfer your money back to South Africa. You can’t keep the money in your Paypal.com account as a wallet … that would be in contravention of the Reserve Bank Regulations and FNB’s Terms of Service. You will be responsible for making sure the money comes back in time.
- Each transaction must be uniquely identified. Every detail about the sender, receiver and the transaction will be reported to the Reserve Bank.
- South Africans will not be getting the full Paypal.com experience. We can send and receive money but will not be able to use the buy-now buttons in South African Rands. This means that you can’t use Paypal.com on your website that focuses on a South African market. So you will have to use a second merchant gateway to handle ZAR transactions. For me, this is the biggest disappointment. The biggest struggle that I have as a South African is the fact that I need multiple payment gateways. My biggest hope was that I could ditch everything else and use Paypal.com exclusively.
- FNB will be adding 1.5% onto the transaction value. This, coupled with Paypal.com’s 3.4% + R2.10 per transaction, takes us to almost 5% – which means that one of Paypal’s most attractive features – the low transaction fee – is negated for South Africans.
Personally, I think we’ve been duped. This is not the Paypal.com experience that the rest of the world enjoys. We are governed by archaic Exchange Regulation that has been abandoned by the rest of the world after the Second World War. (Only 24 countries in the world still use Exchange Controls including China, Zimbabwe and North Korea).
The introduction of Paypal.com through FNB to South Africans will only benefit a small handful of freelancers who can only receive payment from abroad. For the true Internet Business Owner, you’re better off sticking to 2checkout or iVeri.
Not to mention the FNB account fee’s that would probably go on top of that nearly 5% transaction fee.
I knew it wasn’t going to be all they make it out to be.
Looks like we have been duped with PayPal!
The one blessing of exchange controls is that we (taxpayers) did not need to bail out our banks during the financial crisis. Exchange controls are being relaxed continuously and have been since 2005ish. I agree this is not a full PayPal experience, but its a massive start. At least anyone selling goods and services into the global market from here can accept PayPal as payment from today =)
It’s better than nothing, but I agree that it’s a let-down for local merchants wanting to use PayPal the way the rest of the world’s merchants do. For now we’re stuck with the very mediocre South African payment gateways and bank merchant facilities.
It comes as great news. Really. Stoked that someone is picking up the slack.
Fox
Additionally from what I gather on the FNB website you can’t use PayPal with their Online Banking Enterprise (which comes standard with most business accounts).
Although I’m excited about the direction they’re taking (WE HAVE PAYPAL IN SA!!), it seems the service is not really geared towards businesses as yet… let’s hope that changes.
The fact that I have to now use 2 payment gateways is huge fail for me.
I really wanted one cheap solution.
Are they going to eventually include rands as a currency? Surely that is making a local transaction and not subject to foreign exchange controls?
Like everyone, I have been eagerly watching these developments, and what has come to pass is what I was expecting (a little more actually).
So yip, unfortunately, if you want to service a local market, PayPal’s introduction means very little to you.
PayFast (http://www.payfast.co.za) however, provides a decent solution in this regard and while we may not be as “polished” as PayPal YET, I would hope that we’re not considered “mediocre” ;-)
Not to mention that since all transactions are denominated in dollars, you will be stiffed on the exchange rate.
Indeed. I had a feeling disappointment would set in after the initial euphoria was over.
I haven’t completely made up my mind yet – I still have a few unanswered questions that I’ll querie them about, but for now it seems PayPal will probably not be worth most local e-tailers’ while.
Now, if only PayPal would add ZAR to their currency options, it could be a much different story. Surely the option must have at least been discussed in the developing phases as it would have made much more sense – I wonder what was holding them back.
Wow this is a massive disappointment. Everything is acceptable, except that I can’t accept payments in ZAR. Why go through all the effort of introducing it, if you disable what 95% of all people will be using it for?
I’m sorry guys but when we don’t have PayPal you moan.
When we do have PayPal you moan.
Seriously, it’s a massive step forward and I’m grateful. A 5% fee is A LOT better than having to do one of the following:
Convince the person paying to do:
1 – Please use your PayPal account on Xoom.com. This will allow you to send me money. Oh there is a fee of course. Sure, you can take it off the mount you’re going to pay.
Xoom charges like $50 for a $500 transaction. Following this, you have a R115+ Wire Transfer fee into your bank account.
Did I mention it takes a few days?
2 – Moneybookers.com — Oh please use Moneybookers to pay me.
Unfortunately we don’t have support for moneybookers. I only have the companies PayPal account. This cannot be done, sorry.
OR, you do this and receive more Moneybookers & WireTransfer fees. YAY!
3 – So, you’re willing to go to the bank to Wire me money? Yeah you can pay the Wire fees, and I’ll just pay the fee when I receive the money.
This only takes about 3 days.. If you lucky. Sometimes you wait up to 10 days, depending on how the company works.
Oh wait, what about some companies that only do Wire transfers every 3 months, or in 3 months time?
You wait, and then you get that pretty little R115+ fee.
Now, I’m not trying to be mean, but I’ve heard each and every one of these excuses. I’m not too sure what other methods you can use to get money into your bank account.. So I use those above.
Most of the time a Wire Transfer is possible, but man do they take long.
A lot of guys with local SA blogs probably wouldn’t even need PayPal, I mean, why would an international company advertise on a local blog if the market is completely wrong — except for SEO purposes.
I however run an international and local based site together. I get loads of advertising, and loads of PayPal requests, so for me this is faster and A LOT cheaper.
Did I mention it will be cheaper and I don’t have to wait?
Oh, and I don’t need to give banking details which they usually lose, OH and it is way more effective.
This might not help you because of what you’re doing. Don’t complain as if it would have helped you anyway, or as if it’s robbery. It’s not robbery, its saving a lot of us money..
It’s here, now stop complaining and embrace it. If you don’t like the fees, don’t use it..
It’s more of a stumble forward, really. Maybe a few months from now we can expect to see a few more changes and upgrades.
The government still has to wake up to the realities of a digitally connected society. Copyright laws are out of date, monetary exchange laws are out of date, internet policy on abuse and cybercrime is out of date – a lot of work still needs to happen here.
~ Wogan
Well, I’m not hooking my PayPal account up with FNB, so track this (grabs crotch).
I’m happy, despite the negative sentiment expressed in this article.
Thanks for the brilliant synopsis. I realise this is quite excellent news to some people (me to a degree) but those restrictions are really a huge disappointment.
Thanks Secrets2Success for the article.
Considering I only lose about 5% of international sales in my Etsy shop because people would prefer to buy via Paypal, I’m not entirely sure it’s worth switching over from Setcom.
Hello
i am not business minded can someone show me with an example (simple) how will getting in dollars will affect him/her :)
It’s all in the name of control. Exchange control and Bank Control.
The Reserve Bank and SARS want to have a means of taxing the currently invisible flow of money and electronic materials into SA. By forcing all transactions to be denominated in dollars, they can use the existing Exchange Control mechanisms to see who is doing what. And tax them.
Secondly PayPal would be breaking the banking acts by holding rand deposits in local PayPal accounts without a local banking licence. That’s why they partnered with FNB in the first place. To use FNB’s banking licence and infrastructure.
Thirdly, FNB don’t want you to have a means of transacting locally without going through them, as you could if you could make and receive payments in ZAR through a local PayPal account.
You still can in dollars, but the lack of the ZAR option for payment will put folk off, and the certainity that you will be shagged by fees and poor exchange rates makes it financially inadvisable.
That exhibition of Victorian monetary thinking is why we still do not have a suitable international payment gateway for merchants.
Dean might question our our premature elation, and subsequent disappointment but the reality is that FNB/PayPal is not what merchants need.
Hilton, just because once in a while they throw a carrot, it does not mean that exchange control is being relaxed “continuously”.
The fact is that this government has had 16 year in which to dismantle exchange controls and give our citizens the same freedom other countries have…16 YEARS…they’ve dismally failed us.
Well, I’ve just had it confirmed by FNB that Paypal is not available for business accounts.
Where’s the logic?
I agree completely that it might not help merchants, however the rest of the people that need this it will.
Most of the smaller freelance people, which in turn could help grow the cause. It’s definitely a start.
When you ask, Is paypal South Africa everything we hoped for?
Answer is yes, I can receive money into my bank account quicker, more easily and hey — it’s cheaper than wiretransfer/xoom.
Most people overseas only have money in PP accounts, so if you do a lot of international transactions this benefits you.
If not, go on as per normal, as you didn’t really need it before, right? Not trying to be harsh but there are other means which are still simple and effective. CC payments — if you purchase.
It’s just a lot more beneficial when you receive money.
Unfortunately it will take some time, but I believe that many merchants will soon use PayPal, even if its on the side to their normal transactions.
On a further note, I feel that FNB merely wanted to introduce a new way of receiving international funds into the country, and this is what they have done. It’s not ready for purchasing.. Just yet, use moneybookers for that.. Or your CC.
:)
@Catherine: That’s crazy.
Another reason for not hooking up with FNB, I guess.
I’ll stay with Nedbank, they’re serious about money.
If you want to sell stuff in South African Rands, then get yourself a South African payment processor. PayPal is (largely) for dollars – deal with it.
If you want to sell stuff “internationally”, you most likely would want to sell in dollars anyway (your international clients certainly don’t give a damn to go and convert their currency to ours to figure out how much your product/service is going to cost).
—–
If you aren’t currently receiving foreign currency, (as Dean said) you probably don’t even “need” PayPal, so stop QQ’ing.
If you’re already receiving foreign currency then you know what a hassle it is, and how much it costs, and will be grateful to finally have PayPal.
As I said to Chris@imod a while back … people would be disappointed with the launch. It’s only the freelancers that really benefit as they can now link a paypal-linked email address to places like elance.com, etc.
It is illegal for a South African company to bill a South African citizen in anything but ZAR so anyone planning on doing this should think again. 2checkout.com has a workaround this law making it legal … too long to explain here.
I do not for a moment believe the Reserve Bank will relax exchange control regulations. I have regular chats with the International Bankers when sending/receiving money at my local branch and they say the paperwork has steadily INCREASED for cross-border transactions. So SARB is talking one thing but doing something completely different.
What shocks me is the number of South Africans that think Exchange Control is “normal” – because it isn’t. Not for 65 years now. It is simply an excuse for the government to maintain control of the moneyflow and make sure the people with the wealth don’t take their money when they leave.
What annoys me even further is the number of people who think the Reserve Bank is actually owned by the government. It’s a registered listed business (on the JSE) and it’s focus, like all business is to maximise PROFIT.
So, I’m stuck with setcom/monsterpay/2checkout/VCS … what a mess.
Hi Guys,
Just to confirm, FNB transactions fees are 1,5% and cant be used on Business accounts.
Regards
RB
I totally agree with you Dean! I’m ecstatic about finally being able to receive payments from my customers, all in dollars on my website, so I’m not affected by not being able to do a transaction in rands. Although there might be many people who are disappointed today, there are probably just as many who are as delighted as I am! (However, I’m trying not to think about all the terms/conditions and warnings from SARS at this point!) I’ve just sent off my first payment request to someone in Canada and now waiting to see my money roll in! GRIN!!
My first Paypal payment went through successfully just now. The amount paid to me was $170, when it hit Paypal it went down to $163, then I had to do the “WITHDRAW” bit to get it from Paypal into my FNB account. The exchange from dollars to rands converted $163 to R1 183,90 and FNB’s commision was R17,76 on top of that, leaving me with R1 166,14 …which I believe might still take several days to actually reach my FNB account. Until then I shall just sit watching the “SALE PENDING” button on my account page!
Shoo! FNB’s going to turn a very tidy profit on these transactions, if Debbie DP’s transaction is anything to go buy…
I was wondering if they might use a mid-market rate for the exchange considering they’re charging the 1.5% commission as well, but it looks like they’re using the normal “Bank Buying” rate ;-)
So they’re making money on the currency conversion AND on the 1.5% commission.
Nice ;-)
@Hilton, Exchange Controls had very little to do with protecting South Africa against global banking crisis, when you look at all the banking regulations we have. In either case, Exchange Controls are easily circumvented by those who have enough money.
The fact is, Exchange Control is a Human Rights offence. South Africa is one of 14 (I think it’s 14, not 24) countries in the world that has received a very “special” permission from the United Nations to have exchange controls at all, and that was based on predicted instability before we became a democracy.
You could just as easily argue that pass laws and curfews will reduce crime, but the fact remains that it’s a restriction on the right of freedom of movement.
Exchange Control is one of the few remaining “pass laws” targeted at removing the freedom of South Africans. It’s time to Defy Unjust Laws.
We cannot let Apartheid era (1961 Exchange Control Act) laws hold us back from economic freedom anymore.
Chris, to clarify: Are you saying it’s not possible for South African PayPal account holders to pay other South African PayPal account holders?
So basically, my wife’s NGO STILL cannot put a PayPal Donate button on their website and do a fundraising drive in South Africa?
Read the fine print on cross-border transaction fees
https://www.paypal.com/za/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-xborder-fees-outside&countries=
It’s 3.9% + 30c plus 1.5% from FNB = 5.4% + 30c
@Jonathan: “So they’re making money on the currency conversion AND on the 1.5% commission.”
I don’t understand – most sites currently quote the Rand at between 7.43 and 7.47. My calculation suggests that if Debbie D-P’s $163 becomes R1 183.90 the exchange rate charged is 7.26319 which seems generous by any measure ..
@jonathan you didn’t think FNB was doing this for US now did you? Since when has a South African bank done anything out of the goodness of their hearts?
@henk all we need now is for someone to challenge the Exchange Controls in the Constitutional Court.
She can use a donate-now button, but it’ll be in US Dollars – and may actually be illegal if South Africans use it. Plus, with all the fees charges, would reduce the donation by quite a bit.
As far as detailing every transaction goes, I will just pen it down as “donation”.
Chris, Henk et al:
Skip the emotive claptrap and swot up the economics.
http://ideas.repec.org/p/unc/g24pap/33.html
Exchange controls are cited as a key (not the only) reason why South Africa has avoided the global crisis. So much so that last week the IMF reversed its policy on exchange controls as a legitimate economic instrument.
As an individual, you are currently able to move R4m offshore. Too inhibiting for you?
If you want to introduce the impact of exchange controls on Paypal to the discussion, stick to the facts.
As an aside – Exchange controls had a LOT to do with keeping us out of the financial crisis. If you remember the Asian crisis where money was yanked out of markets and sunk half of the emerging markets in the Far East. Yes we have a better regulated and managed banking system than places like the US, UK etc. – it is globally accepted FACT that exchange controls saved us from being annihilated over the last 2 years so let’s not knock it.
Interesting comment made by Michael Jordaan today. When they took the idea of PayPal to the Reserve Bank the guys at the SARB said: “What took you guys [SA banks] so long to come and ask for it?”
It’s easy to knock the govt. for not making an enabling environment for entrepreneurs / entrepreneurship but sometimes it just takes the right people to ask the right questions at the right time.
Now we have a starting point, we can grow from here. I’m surprised however that the SARB let FNB get away with exclusivity… surely that has to be uncompetitive behaviour.
@Henk Doing so would unfortunately be rather silly and cost a lot! Since PayPal doesn’t transact in Rands, for a South African paying another South African through PayPal, the “money” would go from ZAR to $ then back to ZAR. Each currency conversion would be done to favour the converting institution (first PayPal, then FNB) and then FNB would lump their commission on top of that as well. So, it would be expensive and time consuming to do so. She’s better off using a local gateway for local payments and PayPal to receive international payments. Donations are also a grey area from a legal point of view and I’m not sure what PayPal/FNB’s view on this is for South African PayPal account holders…
@Mike AS You’re thinking about it the wrong way. If they used a rate of, let’s say, 7.43 as you quote, then Debbie would receive R7.43 for every $1 which puts her total amount received in ZAR at R1211.09. For her transaction though, they used a lesser amount of 7.26 as you rightly put it, but that gives her LESS money in ZAR in the end at R 1183.90. Forex buyers and sellers (banks) always have a “buy” rate and a “sell” rate which is always skewed to favour them such that they make a profit margin on any forex transaction (ie. charging more when selling, and giving less when buying).
@Tony No, I didn’t ;-)
@Adsony Eish! 5.4% + 30c USD AND the margin on the forex transaction! Definitely getting very pricey!
@griffin I think you might find that FNB’s going to have a problem with that…
@IITQ, Why is it always some cowardly anonymous troll who uses terms like “emotive claptrap” and “stick to the facts”? Seriously, if you’re going to call me insincere and pretentious, have the courage to let us know who you are.
The facts are simple, IITQ: The internet is the world’s biggest marketplace and South Africans are severely restricted from trading on it.
This restriction is due to exchange control regulations, which have no basis in a free society. And although I’m no expert here, I’d wager that even IF SA was protected in any way by exchange control regs against the global slowdown, we may at least have been able to start from, and still end at, a much stronger economic base.
If you’d like to debate further, please put your name to your arguments. I find it often provides welcome context. I.e. are you someone who has tried to build an online business from within South Africa? Have you tried to raise funds for a local charity over the internet? Have you made donations to overseas charities yourself using PayPal? Or do you perhaps benefit somehow (consultant? attorney?) from Exchange Control regulations and thus the reason for your outburst? (I note that the SA Reserve Bank is pretty high up on your blog’s list of “Some Favorite Links”)
Henk
@Jonathan (and I would like Henk’s thoughts as well)
Jonathan, you say “griffin I think you might find that FNB’s going to have a problem with that…” with regards to me suggesting that I would declare payments as “donations”. How would they know that a payment is or is not a donation? Is that not a possible loophole?
Another thing – Let’s say I do start selling something over the net and my clientbase is 80/20(local/overseas) and my product is for argument’s sake R70, what would be the best way to go about it? PayPal or some traditional payment system plugged into VCS for instance?
It seems the SA PayPal thing is a bit over complicated. I am not running it down, just thinking that it restrictive, like we’ve just been allowed on the interweb and its dial-up.
I do however feel that it is a step in the right direction.
IITQ: Thanks for link to an excellent paper. However, I note that it doesn’t promote exchange controls as a permanent solution, but rather talks about specific short-term policies in times of (potential) crisis to control inflow of money (rather than outflow, ironically).
It also does not once mention South Africa.
Are you perhaps referring to a different study when you say that exchange controls are cited as the key reason?
The issue has nothing to do with the R4M limitation. The problem is that foreign investors have to jump through hoops when making small investments into local tech startups. These hoops are fine when you’re talking Bharti buying into MTN, but put a major damper on our economy when it becomes impossible for the next Google/PayPal/Facebook to come out of South Africa.
Henk
The response was to Chris (“archaic exchange regulation”), and your “Human Rights Offence.”
The link is there because I work in finance and economics and the Reserve Bank is a useful source of statistical information. They are not a client or any other connection.
Outburst? No. Irritation. There are plenty of reasons to be a critic on anything. This post was about Paypal. I was irritated that it became a soapbox for a inaccurate (“archaic” – no), and inflammatory (“human rights violation” – really…) language.
If you want a economic debate let’s post a topic about that and discuss the massive danger South Africa faces through hot money (the biggest portion of capital inflows) and lack of FDI. The fact that the outflow of hot money plunged millions of ordinary Mexicans into crisis and is an issue for any small open economies. That tripwires and speedbumps are now be reexamined as a legitimate means to prevent damage to small economies by speculators. Read F.I.A.S.C.O. by Frank Partnoy for a brilliant factual account of the Mexican PESO crisis amongst other financial economic history.
Let’s talk about the human rights violations – subsidies to French and American farmers that make agriculture in Africa unsustainable. Where small countries try to comply with WTO regulations while big countries don’t.
Factual? Yes. Off topic? Exactly.
Henk
The paper was about the use of speedbumps and tripwires in the case of crisis. There is debate about how to implement. Investors do not like sudden changes in regulation, so it is not wise to suddenly impose restrictions to prevent repatriation of funds.
It may be better to have the facility legislated and available in specific circumstances. It can be enacted like stock exchange “cooling down” periods when stocks are over active.
The role of exchange controls in insulating SA from market contagion has been discussed in the Business Day by Trevor Manuel, et al over the last 8 months or so. In the last week, the IMF announced that exchange controls were being examined as a legitimate tool in monetary policy – informed by emerging markets reduced expsoure to the financial market crisis.
Henk
The paper was about the use of speedbumps and tripwires in the case of crisis. There is debate about how to implement. Investors do not like sudden changes in regulation, so it is not wise to suddenly impose restrictions to prevent repatriation of funds. The restrictions are used on hot inflows to prevent sudden outflows.
It may be better to have the facility legislated and available in specific circumstances. It can be enacted like stock exchange “cooling down” periods when stocks are over active. In effect, having something enacted all the time may have a similar effect, although with side effects.
The role of exchange controls in insulating SA from market contagion has been discussed in the Business Day by Trevor Manuel, et al over the last 8 months or so. In the last week, the IMF announced that exchange controls were being examined as a legitimate tool in monetary policy – informed by emerging markets reduced expsoure to the financial market crisis.
IITQ:
Firstly, I agree with you regarding the consideration of _temporary_ tripwire-speedbump solutions.
Secondly, regarding the Human Rights angle: (it’s funny how rights for blacks was ‘laughed off’ in the past by British colonizers, how animal rights are still in no way universal, how it would seem bizarre in some countries to think that women should have the right to vote or even drive a car… but I digress)
I have a body and mind. It is MY body and MY mind and does not belong to anyone else. When I use my body and my mind to create wealth, it follows that that wealth is MINE. (It is because of this very basic argument that the UN acknowledges the right to own property as a fundamental human right.)
Currently, Exchange Control regs (more so than the act, actually) have led to massive hurdles to be overcome by small entrepreneurs who want to trade globally, or trade with each other in a currency of their choosing because of a fundamental restriction on their ability to market their labour. It is MY labour, so it follows that I be allowed trade in any currency of MY choosing, provided the buyer mutually agrees and is able to make an informed choice. To have any government tell me what I’m allowed to use as a medium of exchange, whether USD, GBP, seashells or gold, is an infringement of my rights. To have a government tell me I’m not allowed to hold any foreign currency in my pocket after returning from an overseas trip is criminal! A government that tells me that I need Reserve Bank “approval” to open a subsidiary and a bank account overseas is a government that is overstepping its bounds by miles!
One needs only to look at the massive positive effect M-PESA has had on the Kenyan economy in a _very_ short space of time to get a feeling of the immense damage the SARB’s policies has had on the South African economy. (See the short video and some of my comments at http://www.geekrebel.com/how-the-sa-reserve-bank-came-to-its-policies )
I still haven’t heard any sound (or researched) argument on how Exchange Controls were responsible for shielding us (as opposed to banking regs) from global crisis (and whether it actually has, considering another rate cut today that claims it’s in line with inflation, but is more likely a response to a more severe situation than SARB would like to admit). And even if such an argument exists, it would need to carefully balance the short-term damage it prevented against the long-term damage it has caused (My Palo Alto-based angel investor said he would NEVER invest in another South African startup again because of hassles SARB caused him)
I originally thought the way to address these issues was engagement with SARB to see if one could make them aware of the 21st century. But they have a policy of not “dealing with the public”. The Act is in any case not written by them, but it is extremely ambiguous and thus SARB was able to build a glasshouse of regulations and requirements around it.
It’s time for it to come tumbling down…
PayPal allows you to choose who does the currency conversion – PayPal or your bank.
I’ve found that my bank (Nedbank) gives me a better rate than PayPal does.
Those that trade under the radar overseas for whatever reason, to build up an overseas nest egg, to avoid SAs excessive taxation, whatever, will continue to do so. Their anonymous website will stay on a server in Manila, their electronic products will still be globally marketed in USD, and the proceeds will still end up in an HSBC account in the Caymans. They are profoundly unaffected by FNB and PayPal.
The really dissappointing thing about yesterdays announcements is that it does not help the SMME businessman in South Africa wanting to sell physical products, say bricks, to South Africans. He can use a website to promote his bricks, but cannot accept payment in Rand for them through PayPal. If he is already on-line he will continue to use a local Rand enabled portal. FNB/PayPal is useless to him.
Unless you are an international trader of electronic products and services, happy to have the fee deductions taken from your sales, and later on receive a letter of demand from SARS for taxes due, the FNB/PayPal announcement is a mere distraction.
As some have said, it is perhaps a step in the right direction, but only a very small one. It is not the kick-start for on-line SMME business in SA that we had dared to hope for.
this is goog news, but it is rather irritating having to report EVERYthing you do to the reserve bank. It’s like having a really paranoid micromanaging boss. O well, at least they lowered the repo-rate!!
Hey there!!! I am a student here in SA.
I created a fnb acount yesterday and tried to link it to paypal!
But i am getting an error message, saying that my account has been registered using my PASSPORT number since i am not south african!
The message told me to ask the bank to change it using my TEMPORARY resident number…
Surely if i got this message, means i can use paypal!Nowhere is it written that paypal is not for south africans, it is for south african residents! nobody cared to elaborate?temporary?permanent?
Well, if i got that message, means that i can still use it!
So i went to the bank today, waited 1.5hour, then was served and told in 5min that they(the bank) cannot use my temporary resident number???
Well, if they cannot, so what is the message on the fnb online banking platform?they told me to call the hotline..
got back home, just called the hotline, was told, IF THE BANK CANNOt, then they cannot do anything??
So now i sent an email to fnb, hopefully i may get a positive result.
But the problem is that paypal is so new here!yesterday the guy at the bank did not know anything about paypal. And i assume the girl i spoke to, does not know much either!
So who do i contact?
anyone knows anything about that?
thanks!! Im mad right now!
Keep it real everyone!
I recently received two $100 commission cheques in the post. As I bank with FNB I processed these into my personal cheque account – FNB’s fee for doing this was R100 per cheque, despite them both being deposited at the same time.
Had those been paid to me as two Paypal transactions, I would have “given away” far less than that collectively to FNB & Paypal.
So, I guess I welcome the arrangement FNB has with Paypal…at least I can receive my affiliate commissions easily and cheaply!
Am I being blind – I can’t see any option on my Google AdSense account to have my earnings deposited into my FNB account? Any ideas or does Google not pay into PayPal accounts.
As things stand I’m paying (now!) R190 a month for courier fees on the cheque
Marc – there is no option from Adsense to FNB.
Damn so that means standing in the queue filling in the form, dealing with an unenthusiastic teller and THEN waiting as the cheques get lost between FNB and the clearing bank… Can’t wait.
Hehe, what I have done is gone in and got myself a huge pile of Form E’s and a huge pile of deposit slips, I then fill them out and take in one every month, sorted :)
Thing for me is that I’m a little lucky, the bank knows me really well, so for me I jump queues :)
Hahahah yeah that sounds like me – but I had to go to the press to get FNB’s attention!
5 deposits in a row went like this:
Day 1 – cheque deposited
Day 2 – funds available
Lunch time day 2 – cheque lost, cheque reversed, penalty (no funds available)
Day 3 – cheque (unlost – had some other annotation but same meaning)
Day 4 funds lost (penalty)
It was madness and the branch manager at FNB Cresta referred me to the back of a cheque deposit form which in her opinion “clearly states that FNB is not responsible for documents in their possession or moving between FNB branches and service providers”
Eventually after the article we were on “friendlier” terms and cheques were lost a little less frequently.
Geez, what a nightmare!
I agree that it is a step in the right direction, cause its going to open so many business opportunities for entrepreneurs.
And who knows? this is probably only the start. im sure it will get better in future.
Mind you, they could have done it slightly better than this.
By the way, which accounts qualify?
I need to be able to transfer money with my fnb fluid account (Thats right, im under 18!) into paypal so i can buy music off of beatport and stuff. (Beatport supplies house music to DJ’s, like me, but its extraordinarily expensive)
And dont worry, my parents know about this, and have given me permission and stuff. so dont come lecture me that i dont know what im doing.
Hey guys!
Some very interesting and mixed comments…
Personally, I think it’s great that I can now receive money into my South African Paypal account and request the money to be transferred straight from my FNB account!
I agree that it’s a shame that we can’t accept money in ZAR but I am convinced it will only be a matter of time before we can.
In the meantime it’s not only part-time freelancers that will benefit but also serious online entrepreneurs that have discovered just how lucrative it is to focus on the international market as opposed to the very small South African market. ;)
All the best,
Francois du Toit
The fall out from the FNB/PayPal announcement continues.
The most and only interesting one is an announcement from Nedbank/Vodacom that they will be implementing the Kenyan M-Pesa cellphone banking system. Basically M-Pesa is a mobile money solution for the unbanked allowing them to transfer money and make payments using a cellphone. It currently has around 10Million users in Kenya, Tanzania and Afghanistan.
Sub-Standard Bank felt compelled to announce that they were planning “significant development” of their banking link-up with Spar. Presumably to catch up with Nedbank and Pick’n'Panic.
Absalootlycrap had nothing to say.
Well it’s exactly 8 days since I did my first Paypal payment request and “WITHDRAW” after the media release last Thursday (25 March) and the money still hasn’t shown up in my FNB account!!!!
Hey Debbie
Have you received your money from Paypal yet?
Tony
No Tony, it’s two weeks tomorrow since doing the “WITHDRAW” from my Paypal account into my FNB account and there’s still NO sign of my cash!!! GRRRRRRR!!! (I hope that you’re reading this comment of mine Bafana and Chris from the FNB/Paypal services dept!!! You guys need to “shake it up a bit!” )
Hi Debbie D-P,
Please send me more information regarding your withdraw, do you have a ref number? So i can follow up and find out what the hold up is.
Thanks alot.
@Rbjacobs – Whilst you’re here, probably a good idea to check this comment out too – http://bit.ly/958GdE :)
RB Jacobs, thanks for your kind offer! I do have a reference number for my “WITHDRAW”, but I doubt that giving it to you will have any benefit at all! Are you with FNB??? If you are, your guys in the Paypal services division are supposedly on top of this!! (????) They have the reference number and I was told by this dept that the money would probably show up in my account yesterday morning!!! I’m still waiting.
A really nice discussion going on here, I think I’m gonna adopt a “wait-and-see” approach to the whole thing.
Here’s a question though – if I haven’t linked my South African PayPal account to FNB, can money be held in it indefinitely?
Okay, having just told you that there was no sign of my Paypal payment in my FNB acc after waiting for TWO weeks since doing the WITHDRAW on 25 March, I’ve just received an SMS to say that the money is now in my FNB account!!! PHEW!!! Alright FNB, I understand that we had a LONG weekend slap bang in there which screwed things up somewhat, but I really hope that the Paypal transactions are going to happen a little faster than this first one! I’ll be doing several more within a couple of days and will keep a record of EXACTLY how long it takes to receive the cash! I’ll keep you posted….
Ah Debbie – I look forward to future responses. I have never understood why banks are affected by weekends … these are of course automated computer transactions, right?
Good luck for the second transfer!
You’re absolutely right Tony, it baffles me too that the public holidays would have such an impact! But anyway, the money is in my account – I’m not sure at which point FNB takes its 1,5% comm on the transaction, as the whole amount has shown up! (SSSSSHHHH!!! Now I hope that the guys from FNB AREN’T reading this!!! Ha ha!!!)
Its not so much as the banks being closed its that the local forex desks are closed as a result.
I encourage everybody to stay away from this. There are better options like PayFast that’s cheaper and can actually receive funds is ZAR. If an international client needs to pay money they can do so with any credit card and you can receive your money in almost any bank account whenever you want or keep it there for however long you want.
This is all we ever asked PayPal for. To use it and pay our money into any bank account we choose.
Guys, i am personally VERY happy that paypal is available to us.
Fair enough, the transaction fees are slightly higher but my business is still exploding and im still making more money now thanks to the fact that paypal is available to us..even though at a premium.
It sucks that its not really available to SA webmasters as a payment gateway, but paypal are working on adding the SA rand as a currency option..Besides that, most webmasters including myself do not target SA clients…you can easily target the rest of the world (or most of it), who actually have a larger percentage of their population buying online.
I am personally very happy about paypal being available to us, even though it costs us a bit more. And i feel fnb deserves their premium for having the innovation to make this happen for us. Thanks to them, i am making more money now than when paypal was not available to SA
Interesting blog that I have been following for some time,
I am based in the UK (Saffer abroad) and the website that I am working on, and would like to expand in SA, uses Paypal. I really was hoping that Paypal would be fully localised in SA (with ZAR currency) but based on the info on this blog and in the press it seems highly unlikely – at least in the short term.
Now that Paypal is available in SA I can use it but need to accept payments in USD (converting from an original ZAR pricing) and then convert back to ZAR when transferring funds to local suppliers – all adding unnecessary cost (and legal questions !).
Are there any alternative SA payment gateways that
– can receive payments (in ZAR)
– have IPN feature for triggering further transaction processing
– allow simple transfer of funds to other account holders (from a ‘holding account’ )
Thanks
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the
strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them
better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena,
whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly;
who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort
without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the
deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends
himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph
of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails
while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold
and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.” -Theodore Roosevelt
That’s quite profound, Bobby, although I’m not sure how Roosevelt’s quote links up with Paypal’s presence in SA! ???? LOL I’ve just done two more WITHDRAWS from Paypal into my FNB account – let’s see if they can be completed in the three to sx working days which they profess! I’ll be timing them to the minute! (wink) and will post the time taken here at a later stage.
I just spend 1hour 30 min at FNB with my son (who wants a paypall account).On advice from customer services he opened a smart account because that can be linked to paypall. One and a half hours later and after I had to explain paypall to the consultant(s),he was told that paypall can only be linked to a cheque account and you can only open a cheque account if you earn a salary (which students generally dont!)
He now has a useless FNB account and I have a headache.
Helen, that sounds like you possibly dealt with consultants that didn’t know what they were talking about!! I ONLY have a SMART account, which is not a cheque account, and my Paypal account was linked to my smart acc in minutes online! I think that you should take this matter further and contact the people who know what’s up in the FNB/Paypal dept! Here are some contact details for you:- (I’ve been dealing with Bafana and Chris in this division and they have sorted out any queries which I’ve had so far.)
Bafana Mabasa
Operations Supervisor – FNB PayPal Services
Tel: 0861 729 725
Tel: + 27 11 263 5015
Fax: + 27 11 263 5139
@Helen – wow that’s annoying, I hope you use Debbie’s contact to sort things out.
From my side, I’m a premier banker at FNB so I had someone call me to set things up. I got my accounts linked, I verified my platinum cheque card and all seemed correct. However, when I tried to make a withdrawl, FNB says that the PayPal account isn’t verified. Now I’m stuck for ideas apart from giving in 48 hrs to perhaps sync? Really anonuing!
I echo Steven Tu’s question:
“if I haven’t linked my South African PayPal account to FNB, can money be held in it indefinitely?”
and mine…
Can we still receive money into our Paypal accounts if we don’t use FNB?
Cheers
Let me rephrase my question: If South Africans don’t link FNB to their Paypal accounts… but still receives and pays other Paypal users with that money without withdrawing it within 30 days, is that a problem? What are “they” going to do about it? Anyone have any knowledge in this area?
I am still trying to link the account! Phoned the helpdesk according to them I have to use my credit card to verify my son’s account and then he can link his card through FNB to paypal?
Only problem is I already have a paypal account. I am really frustated. Paypal does not accept his card because the bank cannot verify it ect ect.
Helen, what I had to do was verify my Paypal account with the credit card I’d used to open it in the first place. (You can only open a Paypal account with a credit card.) Once you have an FNB account, and online banking with FNB, you link FROM FNB to Paypal. Paypal will not allow you to add a card that is not a credit card, so you can’t link from Paypal to FNB, you have to do it the other way around.
So if you already have a Paypal account, and it’s verified, you should be able to link your son’s FNB account to that.
Without reading all the comments, I think people have a right to moan. The banking system in South Africa is as far behind the times as the Internet Service Providers. As per usual there is no where else to turn to, you NEED FNB as Paypal hasn’t signed up with anyone else. Hence, it’s a monopoly, as is Telkom and Eskom.
South Africa wants to be seen as a player in the modern world but it’s not playing like the other players. If you open a Paypal account in the US, the UK or just about anywhere in Europe you can tie that account to your own bank account and pay minimal fees. It doesn’t really matter which bank you are with as there is healthy, encouraged competition in these countries, so they all (?) accept Paypal.
I’ve had a Paypal account for years, linked through a UK bank account. I can spend nearly R20,000 without question, without a credit card, and without any mention whatsoever of the IRS.
Paypal is a great payment service to get up and running quickly, no to mention the multitude of code samples online to embed it’s use into your website. One doesn’t need a special bank account, or a particular bank account with a particular bank, and you can be receiving payments in a matter of hours and be confirmed in a few days. Why isn’t it the same here in SA? Why not Standard, Absa and Nedbank also!?
I sincerely hope Paypal didn’t sign some deal with FNB that limits them to only using FNB in SA.
so if i am planning on selling a lot of physical products internationally as a business. but i cannot open a business fnb account and link that to a paypal account, all the transactions will be done through a personal account?? is this correct.
from reading through what most have said they are recieving funds from overseas and transfering those funds from their paypal account into their fnb account but it is a personal account.
why not a business account, it does not make sense.
i really dont want to go and wait for hours at fnb only to find out what i want cannot be done.
a little advise would be greatly appreciated here.
step 1:
open an FNB account, what type of account?
step 2:
once the account is active, i go online and sign up for paypal and link the newly opened account to the paypal account.
step 3:
promote my product through my website to internationals
step 4:
they buy the product from me, pay to my paypal account, i then ship them the product and ask the the payment to be withdrawn from the paypal account to my fnb account
step 5:
the money arrives into my fnb ‘personal’ account
if i need the money for further biz payments etc, would i then have to transfer the money to a biz account… man all of this seems so long winded and confusing.
can anyone give some clear simple advise??
Thanks
Heidi
Hi Heidi, FNB does provide the service for banking accounts..
Absa have produced a much better option for the merchant wanting to sell via a credit card button on their own website.
They have linked with Planet Payment to allow credit card merchant accounts to receive payment in a currency nominated by the customer.
Local customers can choose to pay in Rand, European customers in Euros for example.
Planet Payment supports both machine based payments and web-based payments.
The information seems to be fairly sketchy at present but will no doubt become more readily available.
I’m disgusted PayPal allowed FNB to charge the 1.5% commission. I will not be signing up to this until more banks have been allowed in on the act and the commission has dropped to the standard international wire rate, or lower.
I pay about 0.3% when I receive a large wire. It starts at 0.49% but it’s capped at R600 (Nedbank). I think this is outrageous enough (and it’s probably mostly there to pay a consultant to fill out a damn BOP form and fire it into oblivion for the SARB).
1.5% is nuts.
I’m disgusted PayPal allowed FNB to charge the 1.5% commission. I will not be signing up to this until more banks have been allowed in on the act and the commission has dropped to the standard international wire rate, or lower. I pay about 0.3% when I receive a large wire. It starts at 0.49% but it’s capped at R600 (Nedbank). I think this is outrageous enough (and it’s probably mostly there to pay a consultant to fill out a damn BOP form and fire it into oblivion for the SARB). 1.5% is nuts.
I still don’t get how anybody can be happy about this. There are CHEAPER options available for south africans. I don’t see what paypal and fnb adds to this except the 1.5% commission fee. Seems like south africans are duped again by the local cartel with the same products at higher prices.
Well, I’m not surprised. It is a bank after all and they have been ripping us off for the last 20 years and why should this be any different? FNB is certainly not the hero.
There are at least two entities who do not want you to be able to pay directly from your overseas PayPal account without it passing through your FNB account.
FNB because that is the only way they earn money, and SARS, because they track your activities every time you bring cash back into the country so they can rip the bejasus out of you with tax demands.
As to the 30-Day rule. I suspect FNB are required to give the SARB detailed transaction lists of all daily movements in linked PayPal accounts. I guess monthly. That is probably part of the deal they have with the SARB. That report will also end up with SARS. Tax Time again.
Did it occur to you that they probably had to set up and entire new division for PayPal as then as pay for all the marketing costs?
@Julie – please elaborate on your question, I can’t quite comprehend what you are asking/stating..
@Julie. Yes, I’m sure they probably did, but if you believe that is the reason for slapping charges on top of the Paypal charges then I’d be interested to hear why just about every bank in Europe and the US allows the same transactions without charges? The advertising there is certainly not free.
Banks in South Africa apply charges for everything because they can get away with it. They get away with it because the government does nothing about it and the little people (us) are not united enough to battle against the agreement between banks that surmounts to price fixing. I understand the bank is a business, it’s purpose is to make money, but they are unscrupulous in the their means of making money. The banks do not care for the customer, unless there is something in it for them.
Again, banks in Europe and the US allow Paypal withdrawals and deposits for free, so why not here in South Africa? And why so much effort required to set-up a Paypal account linked to your bank account? Again, elsewhere it is painless and you certainly don’t have to personally visit your bank, or open a new account or even worse, open an account at another bank that you don’t even belong to.
SA banks charge it because they can, because no one is there to stop them.
Tried to get a Fnb account to hook up with Paypal but apparently i’m gonna need a credit or cheque account with riduculous bank charges and requirements to meet to verify Paypal. So guys first verify Paypal before getting an Fnb account to save yourselves alot of time.
Its a bloody nightmare trying to set it up!!!! I’ve spent countless hours trying to get it working, I went to the closest FNB branch and they told me I had entered the incorrect “address” in my Paypal account. So I went home enter the “correct” address and still I receive incorrect address blah blah blah. I’m going to go slit my wrists now. ;) Good night everyone.
Damn @MrFenix, that’s incredibly annoying. Did you get it sorted out in the end?
Paypal, Please Please Please add ZAR as one of your currecy options.
@Gerrit – Ye, a lot of us are waiting for that. Last I heard, they were aware, but they weren’t too keen at the moment, until they saw a big enough demand for PayPal usage. So here’s to hoping!
They’re running a big developer competition, which will create good awareness around the whole thing and I’m sure that’ll spike users and thus result in more reasons for them to evolve :)
Well, @Chris. I think that we should start a Forum or some kind of comunication to show PayPal that we mean business. At the end of the day, administrators of PayPal, will never know the full impact that a country like South Africa will have on thier system, before they take that decision to add our Currency. So maybe they just need a little persuasion.
@Gerrit – They watch these threads :)
All I want to do is to be able to join a few freelance writing sites that pay tiny amounts into my pay pal account – a residual income from page views of my articles. Really small amounts – but I’ve never been able to join these sites before that pay only via Pay Pal, so, initially, I was pleased Pay Pal is now in SA (for receiving monies).
So, I think my next step is to go get a First National bank account, and try sort it from there – but by the sounds of things I shouldn’t even bother – and should just continue not bothering to join U.S. sites that pay freelance writers via Pay Pal only?
I’m not earning much, generally, and can’t see First National Bank giving me a cheque account.
Hey, Teresa
Just thought I should let you know that I opened a FNB Smart Account for the same reason. This is similar to a normal savings account and you don’t need much to open one of these accounts. And I was able to link my PayPal account to it. So I think you have a great idea and because the costs are very low I think you should conceder doing what it is that you proposed. Might be worth it.
What I would like to know, is have anyone tried the new mweb uncapped adsl? Any problems with speed? Or are there any other limitations that we should consider before using that option?
@ Gerrit
Thanks for the tip – what got me worried was this guy complaining that not even a smart account worked for him – but maybe he has got it sorted by now… http://www.hellopeter.com/first-national-bank-complaint-%5B420637%5D
Not sure my last comment will go through because it had a link in it – to a page where a guy is complaining about the service he got related to FNB and Pay Pal – it seemed not even a smart account helped him get his Pay Pal.
If you just Google “paypal south africa fnb complaint” you’ll find it. Use the “pages from South Africa” option when you search.
@Teresa, In all honesty. It took me about 15 minutes to setup my Paypal account online with my smart account. and I have made my first withdraw of $1.00 just as a test, and everything was easy and fine.
@Gerrit You make it sound easy, and thanks for the tips. Do I understand correctly then, that I won’t need a credit card or cheque account before FNB will let me open an account that I will be able to link to Pay Pal? I’m not already banking with FNB, and don’t have a credit card.
Yes, @Teresa, the funny thing is I was not able to do it when I had just a credit card, I had to open the Smart Account to be able to link my PayPal Account, so I don’t think that a credit card will work. But, yes. You would be able to do it with a Smart account
@ Gerrit – it’s sounding good – thanks for all the help!
@Gerrit – Thank you for stepping in and assisting in my absense. Appreciate it.
@ Chris M, All good, thanks for keeping us all up to date…
I have just started exploring payment options for my website, and found this thread very enlightening! I guess most of my sales (once I get my e-books up) would come from overseas, but about 30% of my traffic is from SA – so how would I sell to them if it is illegal for me to receive donations or sales from South Africans? I really don’t understand why it is a problem???!
@Tracey: South African entities must have the option to pay in rands from other SA entities. As I said earlier here use something like payfast.
@Tracey
Andrew is right about that payfast – it’s ideal to offer this method of payment to your South African buyers. You could use an open source shopping cart platform like OsCommerce or Zen and offer buyers both paypal and payfast options. Payfast has a good listing of all the shopping cart platforms that they support.
I setup my paypal account and quickly deleted my card. I’m not sure if i’d still get my refund. I’m on standard bank. I also did the same with Google checkout, now i’m never shopping online.
Wow. PayPal service in S. Africa sounds really restricted.
PayPal has just started working in Kenya (yes, KENYA,)making it two countries in Africa with PayPal receive and send buttons. The thing here is that we can link our PP accounts with US bank accounts (including virtual accounts offered by players like Payoneer)
Central Bank of Kenya has no way of knowing whats happening in my account. They probably consider the market for international payment too negligible–it’s not, but will probably start regulating once they became aware f the vast sums passing through Kenyan accounts. Linked mine with a virtual account (First Bank of Delaware) and it works like heaven. No bank charges whatsoever, only 5 dollars per transaction. Account costs $20 per year.
God, I so much don’t envy Zaffers :-)
Don’t know how Gerrit verified with just a Smart Savings Account because no-one else who has tried this has been successful.
Look at paypalsucks.com. They blocked me because I have bank accounts in the UK and South Africa and I work as an expat in central Africa. They treat this as suspicious, but they do not give you any opportunity to explain. Some websites only accept paypal payments so I can’t use their services.
Firstly the article is not accurate, the paypal account DOES reflect the Rand value in your PayPal account.
Secondly, its pretty natural that the Reserve Bank would know about any movements on your PayPal account, they already snoop around your South African accounts and the banks by law in this country MUST submit to the SA Reserve Bank about your account activity if requested. There is nothing wrong with that, I think its common practice all over the world. If I sign up as an affiliate with someone in the USA, being South African I do not have to submit any documents showing my taxation details, all Americans must do that.
Thirdly all details of any transactions are reflected uniquely in the PayPal account to present to the SA Reserve bank if they request it. And we dont need buy buttons in Rands, thats ridiculous, the whole world trades in USA why would websites be any different? My button on my website is not for the purpose of the South African market exclusively nor would I want it like that. Anybody who buys anything online internationally is quoted in USA.
There is nothing we can do about the costs, the biggest costs the country lives by is the affirmative action cost. This guy who wrote this article is just being negative, if he only wants to tap into the SA market and whine about it then that is his problem. For me I would sooner my website be international-friendly even if it means the SA Reserve bank is paranoid about loosing income and therefore we must appease them… as I said, these laws are not uncommon for the rest of the world
People like this guy who wrote this article make me sick, he should just curl up and die.
Dean, I have just read your feedback, thank God someone sees the advantages of PayPal and btw moneybookers.com has pathetic service and are as arrogant as they come, I attempted to do business with them several years ago… their service is a real joke but they didnt seem to mind how they treat South Africans then while they were making plenty from the developed nations, now the shoe is on the other foot I suppose moneybookers.com will begin to eat humble pie but I would still caution everyone from attempting to do business through them.
@Renee I agree fully with everything you said. the Sad truth however… We can not set up a website and offer a service or product to South African’s for which they can pay in South African Rands using Paypal… It’s just more professional charging your visitors in their own currency… I also think that we should trade in US $ but Why trade in USD if you are ZAR??? There are countries that are worst off then us, and they have their own currency code on PayPal, so why cant we???
I’ve been using PayFast for three months now and I ship both local and international. No hassles.
Renee, thanks for your input. Shame you have got everythinmg so wrong.
Firstly, it is unlawful to present quotes or onvoices in SA in anything other than Rand, so paypal with it’s US button is useless for trade within SA.
Secondly, if you compare the per transaction cost of a SA trade and an US trade we in SA pay significanttly more.
I,as an international trder, am yet to be convinced that the SA version of paypal is anything other than Effen Bee ripping us off agin.
Mad McMax
What is the problem? If I purchase anything from any “international” website I am quoted in USD whether I am sitting on SA soil, or Australian soil or UK soil. If it is a USA site its quoted in USD. And since the whole world uses the USD in all kinds of transactions because it is still the currency used for international trade then why should we South Africans be offended to be quoted in USD.
Anyone who is not able to calculate the USD value into ZAR should not be purchasing anything online and should go back to the cave. Its no big deal if your button is in USD or in ZAR, if anything you will probably come off as more professional if your button is in USD and if one is that keen to include the ZAR nothing prevents them from including their ZAR bank details on their website as well to accommodate the South African who still lives in a cave.
Everyone should just get over themselves, this is a global village and many people (internationally) will not deal with any website/person unless they have the PayPal option so if there is a fee to tap into the world-at-large then you are either in or out. If you dont wish to pay for the privilege then there is nothing stopping you from limiting yourself to the ZAR market.
Is the value of the money from the man in the cave, any less then yours and mine? And no, I don’t go into a Chinese shop and pay for my goods in yuan, so why should we do that online??
And to reiterate, transactions are displayed in ZAR in your PayPal account, this is probably so that there is no mistake in the rate of exchange at the time of the transaction.
Besides its only just arrived in SA, in time I believe more banks will join FNB in offering PayPal service. If you want to whine about anything at all why not whine about the current costs that all banks charge us in SA where our bank charges are the highest in the world?
One of the reason for exchange control laws is because this country biggest trades are in raw materials like gold and coal etc, exchange control laws were introduced many years ago to prevent people scamming the government. Thats one more thing that would be better to whine about, the exchange control laws which prevent all businesses from expanding internationally due to Reserve Bank paranoia that they will lose 0.1c. Its called penny-wise and pound-foolish but what would they know about that when they have always been suspicious of everyone because this country has been isolated for so long.
Gerrit you much have been posting your comment while I was posting mine.
The difference between this country and the rest of the world is that in the other parts of the world where there is no exchange control laws it is not illegal to carry more than one currency I chose, in this country its absolutely illegal to carry foreign currencies and if you wish to buy any foreign currency they will not issue to you unless you prove that you are going overseas.
Its not up to the rest of the world to fit in with our laws, its up to us to become up-to-date with the times and that includes trading in USD.
@ Renee… I don’t think that that is the issue that was raised in the first place, but it does sound like a good way to move from a third world country to a second and a half world country, and it’s as simple as changing a law… Instead of changing the naming convention of every city, town and landmark in this place, they should rather be spending time overlooking the more important things, like the laws you are referring to… But that’s another discussion I guess… For now, I want to type in ZAR in my PayPal ready website, and be able to get paid that way… Maybe in a few years, who knows…
Renee, this is not about exchange controls. This is about South Africans offering a service to other South Africans. If you are doing this you must allow me to use our currency not one that is actually redundant. That is a good law I think as I won’t end up paying more than other South Africans. I can’r believe Paypal didn’t consider this before coming over here with their expensive service.
This is not the Paypal we asked for or wanted. And if you want to do business with overseas clients then at least allow me to do an eft transfer unlike iloveandroid.co.za. They quote in ZAR but still want to force me to use Paypal.
And just wait till South Africans get the same shit of bloacked Paypal accounts like the rest of the world. It will happen, just a matter of time.
Andrew its got EVERYTHING to do with the exchange control laws, get your facts straight by getting in touch with the Reserve Bank.
Many years ago I actually got a credit card from a UK bank which I issued to PayPal in an attempt to do business with those people who would NOT deal with anybody without a PayPal account. PayPal told me that it made NO difference which bank issued the credit card to me… it WAS because I lived in this country with its control LAWS that prevented me from using their service. If I lived in Zimbabwe (which had no exchange control laws at that time) or if I lived in Zambia PayPal would willing open an account for me… but NOT while I lived in SA.
Anyway the point of the exercise is, do you want your business to go global? If you do then know this, there are many scam artists on the net and PayPal safeguards your credit card details and for this reason MANY people worldwide WILL NOT do business with anyone if they do not have a PayPal account. The choice is yours, you either want to do business with those people or not.
Renee
PS. I am not coming back to rehash this thing anymore. I have presented all the reasons why I believe PayPal is a good option to include on your site to ensure that everyone gets an informed decision instead of getting sidetracked by those WHO DO NOT KNOW.
Oh and one last thing that you might not know. PayPal was started by a South African and the standing joke that the service he provided the world COULD NOT include the South African public.
I havent got the time to go through all the comments but I noticed one of you claimed to being stuck because you are still waiting for PayPal to verify your account. Allow me to fill you in.
1. PayPal is an international Banking Service. Security is of prime important to PayPal so you should be happy because it protects your credit card details and your money.
2. While you have no clue about the advantages of having a PayPal account I would caution you to to remember you are entering an international arena and your SECURITY is of prime important to PayPal. As with any normal bank practice if you do not receive the goods or get inferior service they will insure refunds to you immediately.
3. Last but NOT least, and this is the most important and coming back to the issue of verification. Paypal will issue a code on your bank statement. If I recall its about 5 letters or numbers which are reflected in a PayPal link on your bank statement. Retrieve those details sign into your PayPal account and enter into the area allocated, it will say something like Verify, or Enter Verification Number or similar. I cannot recall if they take another day of two to verify your account… but thats ok, its all in the interests of security people.
If you read and follow their instructions there should be no problem, but what with sanctions and exchange control laws most South Africans have been pretty isolated from the rest of the world which is ridiculous. We’ve been living in a cave long enough people, its time to spread your wings.
Happy 2011 to all of your and here’s wishing you a prosperous year ahead.
Renee
And a last word of advice, dont send them endless emails or accusations, if you do you might spoil all chance of getting a PayPal account in the future and then be force to stay in the cave.
Hi Renee,
I’ve been receiving your comments because I am subscribed to this thread. I must say, your comments have been a good read compared to the article. ;)
I was one of the commentors who had previously said that “I was stuck”.
One thing FNB should clearly state is that the Paypal will not work on a Life Start account. I was struggling for months and months. I googled my fingers to the bone. The people at my closest FNB branch told me that it should work. They were more than happy to assist me, but I think even FNB some employees were ill informed about it. Nonetheless, as soon as I upgraded to a cheque account. I had no problem with getting my Paypal account working.
Anyway, I’m happy to recommend FNB to any friends who wish to get a Paypal account.
In response to copious posts by Renee – we’re not all living in the so-called “cave” you repeatedly refer to. (I actually find it quite irritating that you “speak” so condescendingly in your posts, obviously trying to appear as if you know it all, when perhaps you actually don’t!) For many years I brought money into the country via a Paypal account set up by my brother in Toronto, where he lives. My customers would pay him and he would transfer the funds into my FNB account. I had my own Paypal account in SA which I could unfortunately only send payments from, but not receive. About a year ago when the rumours started circulating that Paypal and FNB were in negotiation about bringing Paypal’s FULL service to South african citizens, I phoned them relentlessly to find out when it might happen! In March 2010 when it FINALLY “arrived” I was one of their first customers to use the service within minutes of the media conference announcing the implementation. Paypal works for me, I couldn’t do my business without it and I agree fully about the security risks that customers would be subjected to if they constantly had to furnish credit card details whenever they chose to purchase something. However, I totally understand the concerns and issues expressed by many of those who have posted here – they might all need specific/individual requirements to make Paypal work for their businesses.
Oh and the fact that a South African.. (ironically).. started Paypal is common knowledge. LOL
Thank you Chris, dont forget FNB is also still in the cave too. I’ve always been amazed at how upper management (of all banks) will make a decision and you will even find a full page advert in newspapers on their decisions but not one staff member is either informed or trained on whatever it is. SA better improve their service if they want to enter the international arena and BENEFIT from it.
And anyone who thinks the USD is becoming redundant is living in a cave. The USA is the biggest trader in the world with roughly all purchases coming from the United States of America. The 75% difference is divided by the rest of the world and that includes China and India but not one individual country comes close to that 25% that the US trades.
The USD will never become redundant, the Chinese will NEVER allow that because the China holds more USD than America does.
Its time to get out of the cave people, show an interest in something else other than yourselves.
Oh my God, this is what you said: “For many years I brought money into the country via a Paypal account set up by my brother in Toronto, where he lives.”
It was set up in your brothers name. You would have NOT been able to receive money into this country via PayPal in your own name, you could ONLY pay with your PayPal account. Now you will beable to send and receive in your name while you live in this country.
This is why I am getting condescending. Why not???? And no my dear, it is not common knowledge that a South African started PayPal and since you have so much KNOWLEDGE why didnt you offer some constructive advice earlier. LOL
“Now you will beable to send and receive in your name while you live in this country”
Perhaps you didn’t read my entire post – I already DO!! (SEND AND RECEIVE!!)
As far as offering advice on this, as you suggested I do – this is a very old thread and there are a couple of similar threads around the Paypal discussion on this same site.(But you probably already KNOW THAT! LOL) We had lengthy discussions around Paypal for weeks after implemmentation and actually I offered quite a LOT of advice and assistance to several people who had posted… I even PHONED numerous people who had posted here who were having issues, reagarding how they could set up Paypal accounts and providing them with contact numbers of people at FNB who they could be in touch with! And unlike YOU, I do NOT profess to KNOW it all! So please don’t knock my lack of CONSTRUCTIVE input without knowing the facts! Unlike SOME people I have offered a lot more that just condescending (I-know-it-all) banter!
I beg to differ about the common knowledge point – in the financial circles I move in it IS common knowledge that a South African conceptualised Paypal. :0)
Furthermore Debbie, this just goes to show how much of a cave you actually do live in. What you were doing through your brothers PayPal account would be completely illegal in as far as this country is concerned because you did not pay this country taxation on those earnings and if someone from the Reserve Bank is reading this thread the blogger would have to hand over your email address by law so they can claim lost revenue from your earnings for as many years as it took place. Its wise to think twice before shooting your mouth off.
It was due to exchange control laws that we we NOT allowed to use a PayPal account for business in the past and this country should be praised for easing up on the exchange control laws but while we are not allowed hold any other currency other than the Rand (ZAR) unless we are going to travel means we still have a long way to go.
I think you have it backwards, everyone knew that we were allowed to pay out using our PayPal account but not receive funds. Not everyone knew about a South African starting PayPal but for someone who is not a know-it-all, you certainly fit the mold in talking for everyone else.
I am not coming back to this thread its a bore and I have offered good advice and the TRUE reasons why we never got the full benefit of PayPal until now.
With a Real Merchant Account, your funds are directly deposited into your personal or business bank account, which you control and which is also protected by Federal Banking Regulations.
With PayPal, your money is deposited into a PayPal Account, which PayPal Fully Controls. Since PayPal is NOT a bank, they do not need to follow federal banking regulations. These regulations are designed to help the “Average Joe” avoid issues like having their bank account frozen for weeks or months with no explanation.
“Who would trust their money with a bank that could do that?”
Sadly, Paypal routinely freezes its customers’ accounts for almost anything and without warning. Once an account is frozen, the funds are often held by PayPal for months on end with Absolutely No Recourse for the merchant.”
And this thread is a prime example of why the consumer always loses out in South Africa – we tend to bite heads off without taking time to understand the other guy’s point of view.
Firstly, to those people who think that offering your product in USD (even for South Africans) is a good idea – you’re right – if only South Africans thought that way. I’ve done some market research and found that South Africans tend to avoid transacting in USD – and that’s because many think it’s still illegal.
Remember that not 15 years ago it was required by law to get Reserve Bank permission to buy anything on your credit card from overseas. It’s not the case anymore, but many people (the average Joe who now starts shopping online) still thinks it’s true.
Another issue is legality – as the law CURRENTLY stands, it is ILLEGAL for a South African business to sell anything to a South African in anything by ZAR.
The only online merchant that can get around this is actually 2checkout.com because they act as vendors not as merchants (the technical difference is explained in their fine-print, but basically you sell your product to 2checkout, at a 5% discount, who then sells it to your client, so your client is not buying from you, but from 2checkout.com)
So where does this leave us?
What we have is better than nothing. I think FNB should be acknowledged at least for giving us the option, albeit a limited one, and it’s purely because of the current exchange regulations.
What really needs to happen is for government to come to it’s senses and just delete it – the arguments for and against all have their merits, but at the end of the day SA has to be globally competitive, and we’re not.
The current government’s Marxist Worldview (strict labour legislation, redistribution of wealth, exchange controls) will lead our economy to continually stagnate, until we start looking more and more like Cuba.
Thanks for jumping in Tony, you always offer great insight and opinion.
@Renee: No it is not about exchange controls. Like Gerrit said that is another discussion. If you are a South African offering me a service or goods you should at least allow me to pay in our currency. It’s extremely unprofessional for Paypal not to have this sorted out first.
I never said the USD is redundant. I said it is redundant if South Africans are doing business, as we already have our own currency. Besides for looking unprofessional if I pay in USD I may just pay more than the price a competitor is charging if I don’t look up the exchange rate first.
I also think you are missing something with exchange controls here. When FNB pitched Paypal to the reserve bank their response was why did it take them so long. So it was legal and no exchange controls were relaxed to allow it. I firmly believe it is the grip of our big four all wanting a piece of the pie that prevented it. Unfortunately there is no legal way to bring funds into the country and skip them. It is entirely legal to earn money in foreign currency as long as you convert it within 30 days and don’t try to cheat SARS. If Paypal said anything else they were lying. Perhaps the problem was with their system not doing the conversion right away and letting the money lay there as a foreign currency.
But still South Africans (and other unsupported countries) were using Paypal, and yes to sell. If you already had a UK credit card you should just have done a bit more research and gotten an address as well. Hey you could probably have bought that using Paypal, seeing as it is so popular.
Lastly, Paypal is not so secure. It is common knowledge that Paypal is not a bank and regularly refuse to pay out because the amount of chargebacks “looks suspicious”. By using it you agree that they are in complete control of your money with no recourse should they slip up and they regularly do.
@Renee, sorry to take some time to come back on a couple of specific points.
Yu seem to have misconstrued my point about internal trade. I am speaking from the position of an SA-Based Net retailer with an SA market.
It is unlawful under SA law to conduct trade in SA in anything other than SA rand. As a result, Paypal with no SA Rand Pay Now button is useless in my environment. If I set up a website selling SA products to an SA market then Paypal is useless to me.
As an example, if I have a Bloem-based business seliing carpet tiles, and set up a website for trade and retail sales with an online payment option, then I, by law, and common sense need to present my tile prices and accept payments in SA Rand. Paypal, demonimated and working in USD is therefore useless to me for internal SA trade.
I suspect that there are at least three reasions for this:
1. Effen Bee have provided a SA portal/gateway to the standard Payapl systems. Your SA Paypal account therefore resides on a Stateside server snd is denominated in USD. This explains the Reserve Bank requirement to repatriate funds, and why you cannot use SA Rand denominated trade.
2. Effen Bee do not want you to trade internally in SA using your Paypal account. If you could accumulate funds in your Paypal account and do your Xmas shopping on-line at Kalahari say, paying from your Paypal account, then they make no money.
3. Effen Bee make loadsadosh fromn the exchange aspect, in fees, manipulated exchange rates and so-on.
In conclusion, Effen Bee/Paypal may be ok for International trade, but for internal SA trade it is a non-starter.
Good comments Andrew and Iain!
Paypal was not started by a South African a common misconception in this country.
Paypal was started by Max Levchin, an Ukrainian engineer and Peter Thiel, a California hedge fund manager. Elon Musk, a South African, who’s company x.com was acquired by Paypal in Feb 2000.
Arguing about legislation is moot. I believe that most South Africans are completely happy to transact in US dollars. You can easily determine how much you will pay by loading up xe.com.
The main problem is that PayPal has chosen to only work with one South African bank rather than all.
All other considerations are moot.
And btw, I have received money and spent it without repatriating it. So fucking what.
Richard Catto sid: “And btw, I have received money and spent it without repatriating it. So fucking what.”
LOL, Richard!!!
@Richard Catto: Do you have any empirical proof that Joe Soap is happy to transact in USD and knows about XE.COM? You make your statement as if it is fact. My research (having interviewed and polled a few hundred people) have shown that people in SA are NOT comfortable transacting online and will NOT do business with an SA website with USD prices as it looks “suspicious”. Most people do not even know how to ask their banks to reverse a credit card transaction.
Paypal has not “chosen” to only work with one bank. I think FNB are the only ones that actually made the effort. FNB has made huge leaps in creating a solid Social Media platform (follow @RBJacobs on twitter) and they’ve simply listened to the people online. A bold move that has certainly paid off.
I have not found any of the other big banks interacting on Social Media in any form.
Remember also that FNB/Paypal is for persons only, and not businesses … because their main focus is on freelancers. If you’re a freelance Journalist, programmer, web-developer, consultant, you’ll find that most people overseas are comfortable paying you in USD into a paypal account. That way you do not have access to their credit card details. Perhaps we need to understand that THIS is the target market that FNB is after, and not small business.
As a freelancer, I am sure you find the FNB offering most useful – you are the target market.
:-)
Thank you Tony, at last someone who has freed himself from the cave. : ) and for those who dont understand my sense of humor, move on!
I might add PayPal is useful in affiliate marketing too. There is so much we can learn from the net and bring those funds home + help those who are available to social marketing which is the why of future marketing.
have a nice day to all, including those who prefer living in the cave. lol, : )
Spread your wings and…
Follow me on twitter too, @loot4u and @travels2c
Cheers I’m off to the Botanic Gardens for tea and scones xoxox
@Tony: I said:
“I believe that…”
How is that stating anything as a fact?
But moving on…
It’s true that some South Africans do not trade online yet because of distrust. This is natural for a backward third world country, and I apply this across the board. A few years ago, I approached a local restaurant and suggested to the owners that they take orders and bookings online. They weren’t interested. They felt it wouldn’t work etc. However, not all South African businesses have their heads up their arses. Debonairs, for instance, accepts online orders.
I reckon if you have a web site which sells only to South Africans, I’d use a local payment gateway such as payfast. However, if I wanted to target the world market, I would not register a co.za. I would use a .com and quote prices in USD. If some South Africans have a problem with that, too bad for them.
I don’t think anyone is going to become a dot com billionaire marketing to South Africans. I may be wrong, but I think I’m right. And I don’t mean billionaire in rand terms, I mean a true billionaire in a real currency like the USD, Euro or Sterling. Even Shuttleworth is not a true billionaire. He’s a wannabe billionaire. $200 million doesn’t get much attention overseas. He doesn’t get an invite to the Billionaire Boys Club. He’ll just have to keep plugging away, but I’m not holding my breath. I believe he’s already shot his wad and he won’t be taking down another big deal in his lifetime. Elon Musk, however, will most likely become a billionaire off Space X and Tesla. He’s my hero.
@Tony: I think you hit the nail spot on. This is a product for a small target market who may find it acceptable but for most of us it is not what we asked for, wanted, or needed.
So if any other bank wanted to get involved in the same way I would actually say don’t bother. It’s enough that one bank is ripping us off and it’s only a bank with a culture to rip people off that would think of something like this.
I suspect the real reason Paypal doesn’t want to do business with South Africans is because they can’t get a good rate for wire transfers with the big four in control. FNB is a part of the problem so they shouldn’t be applauded for taking advantage of it.
Paypal doesn’t give a damn about our laws. It is perfectly legal for them to transfer money where they are. If they do business with us too many people will complain that they can’t get their funds so they rather won’t.
@Renee: Just because we prefer to use other services like Payfast that gets the job done better than Paypal for less doesn’t mean we are living in caves. ;)
@Richard Catto: Perhaps, but do you really want to exclude South Africans from your target market and throw away business? There are many businesses that would offer me the same services in my currency.
There’s also nothing wrong with being a ZAR billionaire. Perhaps do some research on buying power before sprouting such nonsense. That “real” currency you refer to is actually federally backed nowdays and not with bullion. So it is actually not worth the expensive paper it is printed on. When it loses it’s value like almost happened during the recession the ZAR billionaire will still be standing and the USD one won’t.
It doesnt really matter who you deal with Andrew, and it matters even less if you care for my sense of humor.
Point is, which has been stated several times over, some companies on the globe will not deal with anyone who DOES NOT have a PayPal account, some of us appreciate access to those companies and people.
And you are correct about the banks in this country, they are milking us dry with such high bank charges and since we as a people never stand our ground about that and other issues then we should hardly complain about an international company who really doesn’t need our business. FNB should be commended on assisting people like us by introducing the PayPal option. Again, there are MANY people and companies who will NOT use any other service but PayPal.
@Andrew: I do business mostly with South Africans and I get them to pay me via EFT. Works even better than payfast.
All money is fiat. There is no gold standard. ZAR notes are just as worthless if people lose confidence in the currency. I don’t have to research anything – I studied Economics at UCT.
DEBBIE!
Thankyou so much for your first hand experience of using paypal – MOST enlightening, encouraging and comprehensive.
Funny I did not get an email about the comments prior to this one, anyway…
@Renee: I get your point and if you want to use Paypal, which is itself a site and service that should not be trusted, it is your and your international clients’ business. Obviously these are companies that only care about what works for them and not at all about how many hassles Paypal cause their clients and the money they steal from them.
It is no reason however to get condescending and tell us we are living in caves if we prefer to use something that works better for us. The whole problem is how this has been marketed as “THE solution for all” when NONE of us, even YOU I presume, asked for this type of Paypal. So each to his own.
PS. I already use a bank that should be commended for reducing my banking costs by 90% over any other bank I have used. ;) That would be Capitec. FNB took the last bit of money I had when they changed their fee structure without even informing me. Their consultant told me it was implemented long ago, I said bull. I wouldn’t commend any dictator so I certainly won’t commend them.
@Richard: If you studied economics you should realise there is no basis for your earlier comment about a ZAR billionaire. It’s comparing different markets with wholly different dynamics and buying powers.
You should also know that it’s not a fiat but what lies behind a currency that will protect you when everything goes awry. For the life of me I can’t find much that makes the dollar valueable other that its perceived “value”. Even someone’s earlier comment is invalid as almost everything I buy is made in Japan or China. The swiss franc is backed by most of the world’s gold, a real commodity. That’s why I say research.
HI
i have accounts with ABSA and just recently opened a Capitec one. Both are savings accounts. I want to order some materials on the internet and the payment is either througth the paypal or credit card (which I dont have). Will I be allowed to open an fnb smart account and then link it with the pay pal account? Can somebody advice me on that. Thanks
Hi Tonny,
Unfortunately a smart account won’t work. You’ll need an FNB cheque account to be able link to it to your PayPal account. I had a smart account and for months I struggled trying to link my Paypal to FNB. Even the people at the closest bank had no idea what was going on and why I couldn’t link the account. I upgrade to a Gold Cheque account and I was able to link my FNB account to Paypal without any problems.
Tonny, check with FNB…my Paypal account is linked to my SMART account!! I don’t have a cheque account. I’ve been bringing money into SA with Paypal since the day they started in March last year without any issues at all.
Hi Guys,
Qualifying FNB accounts include most FNB savings, cheque and transmission accounts. When completing a FNB Top Up or Withdraw with PayPal transaction, a list of all your qualifying FNB accounts that can be used for this service will be displayed. Remember that they will have to be linked to your FNB Online Banking profile in order for them to be displayed. A credit card account is not a qualifying account for this service.
Paypal FAQ’s — https://www.fnb.co.za/downloads/PayPal-TermsAndConditions-24Mar-10.pdf
You guys need help with anything, feel free to email me at RBJacobs@fnb.co.za ;-)
@Tonny: I’m sorry but from what I understand it is only to RECEIVE money. Another reason why it pretty much sucks. If the banks really wanted to do something for us they would bring out debit cards. But to get a cheque account you need to have proof of a very large income and all that so one can then just as well get a credit card. Another thing to be thankful for I guess, being treated like a criminal that’s going to run away with his money still in the bank.
Thanks guys for your inputs and advice. I guess the only thing is to check with the fnb as Debbie suggested. I’ll keep u posted in case of any progress. Thank you
@RBJacobs: “You guys need help with anything, feel free to email me at”
We need help, I have emailed you. I have all the confidence you will know what to do.
I have recently launch a new website, and i have registered with paypal to sell my products. I have successfully sold a few products at a total price of $150, when i log into my paypal account i can view all the items i have sold on my website and view the prices of each items. I have tried transferring the money from my paypal account into my Standard bank account but i was Unsuccessful, does anyone know how i can transfer money that is in my paypal account into my Standard Bank Account? I registered on paypal using my Standard Bank Cheque card. Your help will be greatly appreciated.
@Jones: I’m afraid you can’t. You need an FNB account and can then transfer the money from that account to another one.
@Jones: if you don’t have or want an FNB account, just spend your balance online. Worked for me.
@Andrew thanks for the info, i will open a FNB account as soon as possible. @Richard i have some bills to pay so i will rather have my money in my bank account.
The paypal in SA is a fallacy, especially for foreigners without SA IDs. We are not allowed to send money out of the country, although we are allowed to bring in funds. We are given debit cards, which deter sending money out. I don’t understand why SA is still living in archaic ways of dealing with money transfer
The South African government can go f*ck itself. Funds received from people overseas into a PayPal account are way out of the jurisdiction of the corrupt and greedy SA government. If someone overseas makes a payment into my PayPal account, and I use those funds to make on-line purchases with from an overseas vendor, what gives the SA government the right to tax any of those transactions?! F*ck them – bunch of thieves.
I need to join LinkedIn and am required to pay in Dollars. Would someone please explain how I go about doing this?
You need either a credit card to pay or go to your bank and they will take money out of your account to make payment via Swift Transfer. Your bank will need an invoice from LinkedIn before they will make transfer this is because South Africa has useless exchange control laws and authorities havent come up to speed in becoming part of the “global village”. Hope this helps.
Thank you Renee, it certainly does.
Paypal is an excellent system. Unfortunately, most FNB branches do not even know how it works. I went to several branches trying to pay for my publishers via Paypal. I wonder why FNB advertises it when they have not informed most of their brances about it. I had to use my foreign account. South Africa has a long way to go. You need to expose the government to the value of new, but flexible laws on Forex.
LOL, Chipo. Please they are so paranoid we are gonna run away with our money but then who can blame them when nobody in the world has faith in this parasite form of governance
We always get this treatment, We still cannot get EFT payments by Adsense, similar issues
Huh? SO what’s the story NOW? CAN we or CAN we NOT accept money from locals in USD via paypal and fnb?
I mean if I stick a Paypal “Donate” button on my site (either personal site or business site), will it then be illegal for locals to donate to em and for me to recieve their donations?
I dont understand!?
It’s actually a great and useful piece of info. I’m happy that you simply shared this useful info with us. Please stay us up to date like this. Thank you for sharing.
The way I know PayPal in Europe: Open an account with PayPal giving as link the account details of your bank. Now you can go shopping via internet and pay with PayPal. PayPal takes the money from your bank account and pays your bill. That’s it. There are no fees to pay for the customer. In SA it is just another money-making-racket, it does not benefit the customer nor the business.
Now if there was only a way to get people to click on you donation button and donate some money here is South Africa. That would be great.
Point of correction. Zimbabwe abandoned its exchange controls in 2008. Since 01 feb 2009 an zimbabwean can open a usd account and deposit rands in the account.
How can there be a “Paypal South Africa” when they don’t accept payment in or make payment in Rand ! Doh !
Another Yankie con-trick , like when you ask to go to eBay “New Zealand” (or Antarctica !) and the website just makes a site up for you on the fly.
No; sorry; South Africa is STILL firmly in the 19th century. Wake me up when it changes as the rest of us would like to be doing business with you (especially as all our own currencies [which "PayPal" wants you to buy] are completely worthless Haha ~ it’s a funny world
Just open an offshore account and link to your website via merchant. Then buy stuff with your offshore credit card, no tax, no SARS no extra fees.
I have an offshore account but I don’t have a way of transferring money into it at present, because of our archaic and dictatorial foreign exchange laws.